Another Gaelscoileanna Post

[óseanacháin]

So I’ve already posted a thread regarding this, but I am curious as to all of your opinions. Do you think the Gaelscoileanna ore more beneficial or detrimental (or anything in between?) Go raibh maith agat

[Wee_Falorie_Man]

I think Gaelscoileanna are not beneficial nor detrimental to the survival of the Irish language.

Whether the Irish language lives or dies will depend on the survival of the Gaeltacht areas as places where Irish is spoken as a living language.

p.s. My opinion is not very objective because I think “standard” Irish is promoted to the detriment of the actual Irish that is spoken by native speakers. I personally have no interest in learning a standardized version of Irish that is not spoken by ANY fluent native speaker in any Gaeltacht community, so I’m not impressed by Gaelscoileanna in general.

[aonghus]

I’m reluctant to get involved in what will inevitably become yet another tit for tat flamefest about Gaeltacht vs Galltacht, dialect versus written standard.

Just two points therefore:
1) I have sent my children to Gaelscoileanna and am happy for them to be there since I alone (being myself a neo-native speaker) could not give them anything like the breadth and depth of language required.

2) The Gaeltacht has even less chance of surviving without active goodwill outside the Gaeltacht. Gaelscoileanna are part of the environment that contributes to that active goodwill.

[Wee_Falorie_Man]

I’m reluctant to get involved in what will inevitably become yet another tit for tat flamefest about Gaeltacht vs Galltacht, dialect versus written standard.

I was thinking the same thing myself; that’s why I almost didn’t reply to the original question. Anyway, I think we can set a new precedent in the annals of Daltaí history by not causing this thread to turn into a total flame war, for once. 🙂

[óseanacháin]

Thanks guys. I didnt mean to try and start a big argument to begin with! I was just curious since I get all mz information about the Gaeltacht and gaelscoileanna from online sources, rather than actually living in the country and experiencing them both myself!

[duḃṫaċ]

Compare to standard school system the kids in a Gaelscoil will have alot better grasp of the language, however it’s only a start in itself. Interesting in some ways I think there is a certain echoing of the 19th century going on in some of these debates.

For example. Kids go to Gaelscoil (as oppose to english speaking primary in 19th), people complain about the quality of their language (as people did about Hiberno-English been non-standard in 19th), over time if the right standards in teaching are applied (native or as near-native speakers etc.) the overall standard should rise. Result in Hiberno-English over the long term was it moved closer to standard english, so much so that’s it’s lost alot of it’s original distinctiveness (features regarded as “bad english”)

We have to think of this way that they are starting from a standing start (low number of schools etc.). I went to a Bunscoil (didn’t call it a gaelscoil then) during the late 1980’s for a total of 5 years. I would regard my Irish as “lofa líofa” at the best, however from 5 years of immersion I’ve basically no problem understanding native speakers on TG4.

In comparison when I went into 5th class in english speaking school (5th grade in US) the level of Irish been thought seem very basic in comparison.

All the education system can do is provide a stepping stone, the key thing is the survival of the language in the Gaeltacht and production of native speakers who can be used as a standard to try and baseline against.

-Paul

[óseanacháin]

I think that there is still a good chance of Irish being revived as the main spoken language of the state. Naturally i do not expect to see this happen (and I’m only 20) but looking at Israel I think it is possible. Naturally there are a good amount of differences but I think that the state of Israel does show a possibility for a majority of Irish speaking Irish. Also, I agree with the economic argument and that people will normally choose to teach their children the language of best economic advantage, however, one can look at various communities in Europe and America that speak languages other than English. The Pennsylvania Dutch (German) or the Jewish communities (which are modern as well, compared to the Amish) in Germany and Eastern Europe that speak Jiddish. It’s all about how much the people want to speak the language. I think it tends to be more about cultural pride. Just my opinion though.

[Wee_Falorie_Man]

I know exactly what you mean, Carmanach. I love the Irish language and I’m doing my dead-level best to learn it, but I know that the future of the language will ultimately depend on the fate of the Gaeltacht areas. The most that I can do, is contribute marginally by trying to learn the language like a fluent native speaker (as much as possible), and buy books and music that are made by fluent native speakers.

[Wee_Falorie_Man]

That’s as much as any of us can do, Wee Falorie Man. Unfortunately, many learners seem to prefer the notion of “reviving” the language to actually learning it and learning it well.

Yeah, studying a standardized artificial version of Irish is certainly not “reviving” anything. It would be nice if a person who chooses to learn Munster Irish, didn’t have to move heaven and earth to do it! I think that there would be a genuine interest in learning West Cork Irish, for example, if there were good, readily available resources for people who would like to give it a try. By the way, you seem reasonably fluent to me, Carmanach – Have you ever considered starting on-line classes or an on-line study group? Unfortunately, my level of fluency is not good enough to do something like that, but I would definitely join such a group, if it existed. Just a thought …

[aonghus]

Ar bhain tú triail as http://gaeltalk.net/ WFM?

Tá siad lonnaithe i Muscraí.

[Wee_Falorie_Man]

Ar bhain tú triail as http://gaeltalk.net/ WFM?

Tá siad lonnaithe i Muscraí.

Do bhaineas. 🙂

I worked my way through GaelTalk a few years ago. It was worth it and I learnt a lot, but it was only 8 weeks of beginner classes. It’s definitely a great start for beginners, but of course nobody can learn Irish in only 8 weeks. Though it would be nice to attend classes and have an actual teacher, I’m still managing to do pretty well on my own – forging ahead slowly but surely. 🙂

[aonghus]

Ar labhair tú go díreach leo? Thuig mé ó Tomás Mac Gearailt go raibh siad sásta cúrsa a chuir in oiriúint do dhaoine ar leith, i. duine sa Ghaeltacht a chuir ag obair le duine i gcéin.

[Wee_Falorie_Man]

That’s a good idea. I’ll give it a try. Go raibh maith agat!

[Silini]

We spoke a dialect at home (not native speakers but my parents were very meticulous about giving us a dialect). It caused some problems at school because some of the grammar was incorrect according to the caighdeán ( a dirty word in our house!). I find that I have to work hard to keep some of the dialect now as I don’t live in the Gaeltacht. I am sending my children to a Gaelscoil. I don’t know a thing about them and wouldn’t be aufait with the theory but for me it’s another setting in which they can speak Irish as its the thing I missed most as a child, I’d want to speak it to anyone I could find who spoke it! Even my five year old craves other children to speak Irish with (her English is fluent too but she wants to speak in Irish to other children) and I feel she may get some aspect of it there. She is already aware of different dialects and asks me what kind of Irish different speakers have. I am hoping the gaelscoil wont ruin her ‘blas’ as I’ve seen this happen before and already she has come home singing the word ‘isteach’ with a hard ‘c’ at the end for the first time ever having heard it there!!!

[aonghus]

Silíni,

B’fhiú duit dul i dteagmháil le Comhluadar, mura bhfuil sin déanta agat cheana.

http://comhluadar.ie/

Beidh deis ag do pháiste ansin bualadh le gasúir eile atá dhá tógáil le Gaeilge.

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