Fáilte (Welcome) › Forums › General Discussion (Irish and English) › Clásal coibhneasta díreach nó clásal coibhneasta indíreach
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June 26, 2012 at 6:32 pm #36305GobadánParticipant
I’d like to ask a qestion about direct and indirect clauses.
In this sentence from Modern Irish (Mícheál Ó Siadhail 1989) p314
Sin é an sagart a phóg an bhean.
An Siadhal says that the ambiguity of who did the kissing is “avoided by the use of a resumptive pronoun as object in the direct relative”
Sin é an sagart a phóg an bhean é
That is the priest whom the woman kissed.
Because of the use of the past tense it is unclear, whether this remains a direct relative or becomes an indirect relative.
On the Gramadach na Gaeilge site it says“Principally, when the antecedent is an accusative object, a direct relative clause is used. 
However, direct relative clauses like “An fear a bhuail mé.”are ambiguous. 
There is no way to distinguish whether the antecendet is the subject (“the man who hit me”) or the object (“the man whom I hit”).
In the latter case, an unambiguous sentence structure with the indirect relative particle is possible. 
Â
Present et al..:Â
antecedent + a + verb + subject + é/í/iad  an fear a mbuailfidh mé é = the man whom I hitÂ
Past:antecedent + ar + verb + subject + é/í/iadÂ
  an fear ar bhuail mé é = the man whom I hit”
So my question is does it change from direct to indirect when this resumptive pronoun is inserted or is Ó Siadhail implying that it remains a direct relative clause?
Thank you for any help.June 27, 2012 at 7:29 pm #42164LabhrásParticipantI’d like to ask a qestion about direct and indirect clauses.
In this sentence from Modern Irish (Mícheál Ó Siadhail 1989) p314
Sin é an sagart a phóg an bhean.
An Siadhal says that the ambiguity of who did the kissing is “avoided by the use of a resumptive pronoun as object in the direct relative”
Sin é an sagart a phóg an bhean é
That is the priest whom the woman kissed.
Because of the use of the past tense it is unclear, whether this remains a direct relative or becomes an indirect relative.There is a typo.
It should be: “avoided by the use of a resumptive pronoun as object in the indirect relative”
The example in my version of “Modern Irish” is:Sin é an sagart ar phóg an bhean é.
The use of “ar” indicates an indirect relative clause.
On the Gramadach na Gaeilge site it says
“Principally, when the antecedent is an accusative object, a direct relative clause is used. 
However, direct relative clauses like “An fear a bhuail mé.”are ambiguous. 
There is no way to distinguish whether the antecendet is the subject (“the man who hit me”) or the object (“the man whom I hit”).
In the latter case, an unambiguous sentence structure with the indirect relative particle is possible. 
Â
Present et al..:Â
antecedent + a + verb + subject + é/í/iad  an fear a mbuailfidh mé é = the man whom I hitÂ
Past:antecedent + ar + verb + subject + é/í/iadÂ
  an fear ar bhuail mé é = the man whom I hit”
So my question is does it change from direct to indirect when this resumptive pronoun is inserted or is Ó Siadhail implying that it remains a direct relative clause?
Thank you for any help.Yes. All relative clauses with a resumptive pronoun referring back to the antecedent are indirect relative clauses.
June 27, 2012 at 10:24 pm #42167GobadánParticipantAh yes I see it now!
It only takes someone to explain it…Thank you a chara. -
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