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Can anyone point me toward learning materials/information dealing with double genitives, other than the little blurb found on http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htm ? I’ve looked through TYI, LI, McGonagle’s Handbook and Nancy Stenson’s Basic Irish and Intermediate Irish, to no avail. No one seems to address this with any depth. Any help would be appreciated. GRMA
I guess I didn’t explain what I was looking for very well.
When 3 (or more) nouns are in a genitive relationship, there are various ways to handle it, dependent on multiple factors. But the only information I find addressing this is scattered in bits and pieces here and there. Rather than having to cull the information from a reference to genitives under each factor, I am asking if there is a reference available that covers the rules for the various factors/constructs all in one place, as a single topic. Is that any clearer?
GRMA
Here’s a short article about multiple genitives that is very helpful:
http://www.corkirish.com/wordpress/archives/2624
Where would us learners of Munster Irish be without this web-site? 🙂
GRMA, a chara. If you hadn’t pointed it out, I never would have seen it. I rarely use that site for anything but the sound files. Looks like I’ll take the bits and pieces I find and compile them myself. I was just hoping there was something already out there with all the info in one place. No harm in asking, right? 🙂
I think the issue here is that such accumulations of nouns don’t usually happen in natural speech. Often they are the result of poor (overly literal) translations from English.
So that the “rules” are only slowly forming.
I think the issue here is that such accumulations of nouns don’t usually happen in natural speech. Often they are the result of poor (overly literal) translations from English.
So that the “rules” are only slowly forming.
GRMA, a Aonghuis. That is one of the reasons it is important to me to have all the “If X then do Y” pieces in one place. When something is ubiquitous, even if I don’t fully understand it, I have repetition on my side. Sooner or later it will either “click” for me, or cease to matter if it does click, because either way, I’ll know how to say it simply from constant usage. But something comparatively rare, such as double genitives, is a different story. It will be easier for me to put the puzzle together if the pieces are not all in different boxes. It is ironic that the grammar points not laid out in detail are exactly the ones I need formatted that way in order to learn them. In any event, I’ll have a nice little “cheat sheet” to refer to when I’m done! 🙂
Nine times out of ten, the correct thing to do will be to recast the phrase.
I know many people on this forum have suggested keeping the sentences and phrases within your range of knowledge, and keeping it simple. 🙂
I ought to clarify that that was not aimed at learners but a general rule!
But I am a descriptivist, not a prescriptivist.
other than the little blurb found on http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htm ?
The German version is more detailed: [url=http://www.braesicke.de/subst2.htm#mehrgen]mehrere Genitive?[/url]
But I am a descriptivist, not a prescriptivist.
—————————————————–Please Aonghus give the Irish for these two words!
Le meas,
HarpPlease Aonghus give the English for these two words!!!
Also, I wouldn’t admit this stuff on line. Such confessions
down here in Texas could get you arrested and imprisoned🙂 Féabar Mac
Nine times out of ten, the correct thing to do will be to recast the phrase.
Quite true, and 9 out of 10 times, that’s what I end up doing. But I would like to get it right the tenth time, as well! Hmm…an deichiú ham nó an t-am deichiú?
We could probably use more descriptivists, just for balance. The scales are weighted rather heavily the other way here!GRMA, a Labhrás, but I don’t have any German. :down:
Please Aonghus give the English for these two words!!!
Also, I wouldn’t admit this stuff on line. Such confessions
down here in Texas could get you arrested and imprisoned
======================================
and rightly so!!Down here in Texas, on the Flying Shamrock Ranch, I do not allow a “buachaill bo/” to use words like “descriptivist and/or prescriptivist.”
Words like these make the cows go dry!!!Scig,
Harp
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