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Recently I saw a post that stated “as the language dies out.” Although I don’t have a great grasp of Irish, as a young American of Irish heritage, I do not think that the language is necessarily dying out. I believe that to be a pessimistic attitude. Let’s keep the forums positive and forward thinking! I can find numerous examples of the language revival. Look at the Gaelsceoleanna! In any case just wanted to post this, particularly due to St. Patrick’s day!
They have been saying Irish was dying for more than 150 years. And it’s still alive, so don’t listen to those who say that.
I don’t really want to get involved in any sort of argument here and I know that I don’t post on here very often, however, I don’t see why when someone wants to give a little tiny piece of encouragement we jump down his throat in the name of realism. I think we all know that the language is in trouble, really, people have posted here enough about it, but driving away any hope won’t make things better.
I can see that you feel very strongly about this and I admit that I personally don’t know all that much Irish ( I can just piece together the odd phrase or two) but I should think that that would be acceptable since this is a learner’s forum and I am an American (a double whammy) who has never been to Ireland ( ouch!), so I can’t say all that much on the state of the language in Ireland . But, as I said, no one denies that Irish is in some deep trouble, though it doesn’t seem to be much of a dead elephant in the room since you hear of how much trouble it’s in over and over again. I just think that if you keep focusing on how bad things are you aren’t gonna get much of anywhere. I’m not trying to ignore the trouble, it’s just, if you really believe all of this, what incentive is there to keep learning a hopeless language? What’s the point in trying to keep it going?
I’m not trying to ignore the trouble, it’s just, if you really believe all of this, what incentive is there to keep learning a hopeless language? What’s the point in trying to keep it going?
There’s no utilitarian reason for learning the Irish language. I think people choose to learn Irish because they love the language – which is a GREAT reason, by the way! 🙂
Caithfidh mè ràidht go bhfuil teangthacha eile ann a bhfuil a gcàs i bhfad nìos measa nà ‘n Ghaeilg, mar shompla, an Bhriotàinis, teangaidh mo shinsear. Nìl ach dornàn beag pàistì a labhras ì ò dhùchas, agus tà chòir a bheith achan chainteoir dùchais nìos sine nà 50 bliain d’aois. Ar an iomlàn, stad achan nduine do bheith ‘labhairt Briotàinise lena phàistì ò 1945 amach.
Sin teangaidh i gcontùirt.
Tà cuid mhòr daoinì sa Ghaeltacht, go bhfios domh, a labhras Gaeilg agus a bhfuil dùil acu inti agus nach mian leofa ì a dh’fhàgàil. Tà pàistì sa Ghaeltacht a labhras Gaeilg agus a bhfuil dùil acu inti. Thiocfadh le càs na Gaeilge bheith nìos measa…Caithfidh mè ràidht go bhfuil teangthacha eile ann a bhfuil a gcàs i bhfad nìos measa nà ‘n Ghaeilg, mar shompla, an Bhriotàinis, teangaidh mo shinsear. Nìl ach dornàn beag pàistì a labhras ì ò dhùchas, agus tà chòir a bheith achan chainteoir dùchais nìos sine nà 50 bliain d’aois. Ar an iomlàn, stad achan nduine do bheith ‘labhairt Briotàinise lena phàistì ò 1945 amach.
Sin teangaidh i gcontùirt.
Tà cuid mhòr daoinì sa Ghaeltacht, go bhfios domh, a labhras Gaeilg agus a bhfuil dùil acu inti agus nach mian leofa ì a dh’fhàgàil. Tà pàistì sa Ghaeltacht a labhras Gaeilg agus a bhfuil dùil acu inti. Thiocfadh le càs na Gaeilge bheith nìos measa…I’m sorry to hear that the Breton Language is in such dire straits. Tá Gaolainn sár-mhaith agat – An bhfuil Briotáinis agatsa, chomh maith? (just curious)
Like you said: Matters could be worse …
I’m sorry to hear that the Breton Language is in such dire straits. Tá Gaolainn sár-mhaith agat – An bhfuil Briotáinis agatsa, chomh maith? (just curious)
ar ndòighe 🙂 D’fhoghlaim mè canùint mo shinsear ò sheandaoinì.
Carmanach is right that it’s important to be realistic and deny none of the grave threats to the future of Irish – especially that posed by the decline of the Gaedhealtachtaí. Widespread awareness of this is essential if there’s to be any chance that the problems facing the language can be tackled.
While there’s not a lot we as learners can do about the decline of Gaedhealtacht communities we can play our own part by learning the language, making it a living part of our own lives and passing it on as best we can. Focusing on the authentic Irish of native speakers is, of course, crucial.
It’s also important never to allow pessimism to overcome our enthusiasm for Irish and willingness to commit our time and efforts to it.Everything that’s been done for the language since the late 19th century has been driven by people with hope for a future (some future at least) for the language, regardless of how unrealistic or downright foolish those hopes may have seemed to many.
If pessimism had won out then, Irish would be in an infinitely worse position now than it is and much of the work in the language with us today – from linguistic studies to literature – would never have been.
Irish owes much to those prepared to be optimistic.I think the answer is for each of us to do the best we can to speak the best Irish that we are able to speak. Speak it and make it alive at least in the course your own life. That’s all each of us can do, and that is what I’ve done now for some 4 years. There is no positive outcome by being negative or as stated here “realistic”. If Irish dies…. it will die. I will do my part to speak the best Irish I can, but whether my Irish is correct or not I will love it and speak it. That is the bottom line. The Gaeltacht will have to preserve its own Irish if it is important to the people in the Gaeltacht. I get weary of hearing all of the non-native Irish speakers on these forums talking about what the Gaeltacht people want or don’t want. Obviously the Gaeltacht natives aren’t on here to discuss it. I have spent weeks in the Gaeltacht for several different summers and have witnessed many native speakers who don’t even bother to speak it to their children. Others are passionate about it. That is not something we can change with all of our argument and discussion. Just LEARN it nd SPEAK it.
I agree for the most part, but the issue does inevitably become WHERE do you learn it? If you’re not at all critical of this as a learner, you are NOT doing your best to learn the language, however well intentioned your efforts are. What posters like Carmanach are saying (even if they’re saying it in impassioned terms) is that not all material for learners is created equally. It’s not a matter of learning Gaeltacht Irish to please the people of the Gaeltacht; it’s about actually learning the language as it was spoken by people who grew up speaking it. Otherwise you are learning a second hand interpretation of the language. I can easily imagine entire generations of new Irish speakers who can speak “school” Irish very well with fellow students but would never be able to understand a poem or song from the living tradition because the versions of the language are so different. You could argue it’s a symptom of natural language evolution, but considering there are still native speakers to learn from, albeit few in number, it seems to me we should still make an effort as learners to emulate Gaeltacht Irish where at all possible.
I remember when I began learning I called Oideas Gael (from Texas) and they recommended I begin with Tús Maith. As time went by, I heard nothing but criticism on many forums (this one included) about using that resource. The criticisms are always from other non-native speakers. I purchased it from native-speakers who work there at Oideas Gael. They are from Teelin and surroundings. It was a WONDERFUL start. The confusion to learners comes because if that is what educators who are in fact native-speakers recommend a person to use, what is a person like Carmanach advocating? What would he propose that a rank beginner use? Not all people outside of Ireland have the financial resources to hop on a plane and spend several weeks in the Gaeltacht. When I was staying in a home in Teelin an older guy saw my “Glance Card” and commented, “That’s not my Irish!” I asked him to read it through for me and he reluctantly did so. I then commented, “Well until someone around here creates something else for learners, this is what we are given to use”. Now that I’m gaining a base in the language, I am able to listen to recordings and such of native-speakers. It is indeed difficult to understand them, but I have a start. I have something instead of nothing. I also try to now listen to RNG from time to time to sharpen my ear to the living language. I appreciate and for the most part understand all the comments about learners focusing on a “second hand” language, but learners must start somewhere, and until better materials are created by those who are so passionate, those are the materials that are readily available.
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