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The problem is this: why can’t learners start learning Irish directly with Donegal Irish (if they are interested in that dialect)? Why do they have to start with Donegalised Standard Irish and then unlearn stuff (when they can!) to replace it by the real dialect? Why do all Ulster teachers always write learning books that don’t teach the real language? And why only Ó Siadhail and Dillon dared to write learning books in a real dialect? That puzzles me. It’s like “you’ll learn fake stuff first and once you’re advanced enough you’ll go to the Gaeltacht and see that a good part of what you’ve learnt isn’t used by natural speakers”.
I agree with you both. These are problems we can discuss but we cannot solve. Bíodh deireadh seachtaine maith agaibh!
I don’t really care about the CO to be honest, either good or bad. What angers me though is people with poor Irish themselves labelling dialect forms as “errors”.
these people are lucky not to have said such thing in front of me…
Wow, I’m quite happy with how this discussion has gone after my original post! I’ve learned quite about the dialect versus standard Irish issue as well. I would just like to put my two cents in this topic. I’m taking German Linguistics right now, and we are learning quite a bit about the development and state of the German language as it existed and exists (They don’t have any Irish classes here!) In terms of the dialectical differences, it seems to me to be quite similar to Germany, in that there is a standard established, and at the same time there are dialects that I can not understand whatsoever (although I’m fairly fluent in the standard.) In the Irish situation, it seems to be a bit similar, with an exception (outside of the obvious differences between the two languages.) The German standard was formed based primarily on one of the dialects themselves. Am I correct in saying that with Irish that is not the case? Was the standard developed based on any of the dialects? Perhaps that hurt more than helped? A last question: in the Gaelscoileanna, do they speak in the local dialect or in the standard normally? I’m curious. Go raibh maith agat
Some crowd in Cork had an ad on the city buses for “Cúrsaí Gaeilge”. Funny, that, teaching Connemara Irish in deepest Munster.
I didn’t realize there was a dialectical distinction between what they call a “course” (if I understand you correctly here). What would they say in Munster, “Ranganna Gaeilge”? Just curious. I don’t have a great knowledge of which dialects say what, in many cases. I know try to know several ways of saying everything, but don’t always have that correlated in my mind to where they would say it.
Oh.. I just realized the more obvious thing.. You’d say “Cúrsaí Gaelainn” (Gaelainne?), no doubt.
I go back and forth on which form I find more aesthetically pleasing. I obviously learned about “Gaelainn” a lot later in my studies, so it doesn’t occur to me as quickly, but it seems to be the one I hear the most lately when listening to natives. But it also seems to be the most divergent from what the other dialects and the other related languages say. There is something slightly more elegant about it though. It makes me think about that (oft controversial) bit about Munster Irish being the most noble.
Noble is surely very subjective. Overall, I prefer Connacht Irish, but there are just times when listening to certain Munster words where I can’t help but think of that particular quote (obviously “noble” is a translation, but it seems to be the original sentiment, if I’m not mistaken) and think there is something to it. Obviously all dialects are equally noble in their own right, thus the controversy sometimes created by evoking that piece.
I don’t know what it is, but I find women speaking Conamara Irish very sexy indeed.
is dòigh liom fèin go mbraitheann sè ar a’ bhean agus ar a guth 🙂 , nì ar a’ chanùint fèin nò thig leis a’ 3 chanùint bheith binn nuair is bean àlainn a labhras iad agus guth deas aici 😀
There is something slightly more elegant about it though. It makes me think about that (oft controversial) bit about Munster Irish being the most noble.
that’s purely a personal opinion with no scientific reason. Maybe you say that because Munster Irish in general is closer to Classical Irish (in parts of its morphology only), but actually, not for all features (Ulster Irish is more archaic on some parts), there are archaic things in all dialects, so I don’t see what is noble to you. 🙂
There is something slightly more elegant about it though. It makes me think about that (oft controversial) bit about Munster Irish being the most noble.
that’s purely a personal opinion with no scientific reason. Maybe you say that because Munster Irish in general is closer to Classical Irish (in parts of its morphology only), but actually, not for all features (Ulster Irish is more archaic on some parts), there are archaic things in all dialects, so I don’t see what is noble to you. 🙂
I wasn’t attempting to be in any way scientific 😛 All aesthetic descriptors are inherently subjective, so I don’t generally offer additional qualifiers in that regard. Obviously the controversy that surrounds this small bit of writing is more powerful than I even realized…
that’s purely a personal opinion with no scientific reason. Maybe you say that because Munster Irish in general is closer to Classical Irish (in parts of its morphology only), but actually, not for all features (Ulster Irish is more archaic on some parts), there are archaic things in all dialects, so I don’t see what is noble to you. 🙂
er … that sounds kinda funny coming from a person whose signature says:
“Agus is í Gaeilg Ghaoth Dobhair is binne”
😉
that’s purely a personal opinion with no scientific reason. Maybe you say that because Munster Irish in general is closer to Classical Irish (in parts of its morphology only), but actually, not for all features (Ulster Irish is more archaic on some parts), there are archaic things in all dialects, so I don’t see what is noble to you. 🙂
er … that sounds kinda funny coming from a person whose signature says:
“Agus is í Gaeilg Ghaoth Dobhair is binne”
😉
Tuairt!! 🙂
Just how many frustrated singletons are there on this forum?
I’m not one of them, I have a girlfriend 🙂
Some parts of Conamara women are closer to the classical . . .
i was talking about the Classical Irish language 😀
er … that sounds kinda funny coming from a person whose signature says:
“Agus is í Gaeilg Ghaoth Dobhair is binne”
I prefer the pronunciation of Gaoth Dobhair but it’s personal 🙂 I understand that other people may prefer other dialect, everyone may have different preferences
that’s why I said there are archaisms and beautiful things in all dialects
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