Independent clause preceded by dependent clause

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  • #36762
    Duncan
    Participant

    If I want to say “When he heard that, he got angry” I can, of course, rearrange the words and say “Tháinig fearg air nuair a chuala sé sin.” But suppose for emphasis I want to use the phrases in the order I used in English–I would imagine I could simply say “Nuair a chuala sé sin, tháinig fearg air.” Am I correct?

    The reason I ask is that I have three nagging questions I’d like to clear up about this type of structure:
    1. Should I have introduced the independent clause with the a particle: “Nuair a chuala sé sin, a tháinig fearg air”? (I’ve been almost positive that a doesn’t belong here, but on the other hand I can see that it might be needed if the entire introductory clause is considered to be a modifier of tháinig.)
    2. I only thought about this question after I already composed the post: Should the opening clause be “nuair ar chuala sé?” I know that ar is used with regular verbs, but not with irregular verbs with a separate dependent past form; what about verbs like clois that are irregular but just have the one past form? I notice that when I googled sentences with “nuair ar chuala” I saw only one hit and that from a line in a song, but got several hits on “nuair a chuala.”
    3. Although I would normally use the comma in English, would this sentence look better in Irish without the comma? Thanks.

    #45413
    Cúnla
    Participant

    If you really wanted to emphasize it, you might say something like: “níor thúisce a chuala sé é sin ná a tháinig fearg air,” “níor luaithe a chuala sé é sin ná a tháinig fearg air,” “(ar) an dá luath is a chuala sé é sin, tháinig fearg air,” &c.

    Regarding your number one, no, the way you had it first was right.

    You would normally have the comma in Irish in your second version, since they’re two independent clauses.

    #45414
    Labhrás
    Participant

    If I want to say “When he heard that, he got angry” I can, of course, rearrange the words and say “Tháinig fearg air nuair a chuala sé sin.” But suppose for emphasis I want to use the phrases in the order I used in English–I would imagine I could simply say “Nuair a chuala sé sin, tháinig fearg air.” Am I correct?

    Yes.

    The reason I ask is that I have three nagging questions I’d like to clear up about this type of structure:
    1. Should I have introduced the independent clause with the a particle: “Nuair a chuala sé sin, a tháinig fearg air”? (I’ve been almost positive that a doesn’t belong here, but on the other hand I can see that it might be needed if the entire introductory clause is considered to be a modifier of tháinig.)

    No particle at all.

    2. I only thought about this question after I already composed the post: Should the opening clause be “nuair ar chuala sé?” I know that ar is used with regular verbs, but not with irregular verbs with a separate dependent past form; what about verbs like clois that are irregular but just have the one past form? I notice that when I googled sentences with “nuair ar chuala” I saw only one hit and that from a line in a song, but got several hits on “nuair a chuala.”

    nuair is followed by a direct relative, i.e. always “[color=red]a[/color]” and no “[color=red]ar[/color]”.
    “[color=red]Ar[/color]” introduces only an indirect relative.

    3. Although I would normally use the comma in English, would this sentence look better in Irish without the comma? Thanks.

    Don’t know if there are special comma rules in Irish.

    #45415
    Duncan
    Participant

    Thanks to both of you. I think that clears things up. Sorry about a lapse of memory with that second question, Labhrás. I often forget about the direct/indirect types of clause, so thanks for putting it in a way that’s easier to remember. I take this to mean that, although clois is an irregular verb, it just has the one past tense so I should choose a or ar the same way I would with a regular verb.

    I like your suggestions for emphasis, Cúnla!
    Go raibh maith agaibh!

    #45416
    Hugo
    Participant


    1. Should I have introduced the independent clause with the a particle: “Nuair a chuala sé sin, a tháinig fearg air”? (I’ve been almost positive that a doesn’t belong here, but on the other hand I can see that it might be needed if the entire introductory clause is considered to be a modifier of tháinig.)

    Adding the copula and removing the comma to emphasize the “when-ness”: “Ba nuair a chuala sé sin a tháinig fearg air”.

    #45417
    Duncan
    Participant

    I hadn’t thought of that possibility; very good point for a way to achieve this. GRMA, Hugo.

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