McDonald’s as Gaeilge

[Rosie]

Dia daoibh, a Ghach Duine. 🙂!

I am currently doing a project about “McDonald’s” words/popular menu options in Irish. For example “Mac Mór” (Big Mac)

I finally figured out that a good Irish equivalent for “McDonald’s” would be “Mhic Dhomhnaill” (since it’s possessive), [color=purple]but why is the “D” lenited? I thought a genitive of a genitive is generally unchanged. 🤷🏻‍♀️
[/color]

And, I also saw once source that seemed to indicate (but not outright state) that “S”s are specifically not lenited as a genitive of a genitive…[color=blue]so, would “McChicken Sandwich” be “Ceapaire Mhic Sicín”?[/color]

Thanks in advance!

[Labhrás]

Dia daoibh, a Ghach Duine. 🙂!

I am currently doing a project about “McDonald’s” words/popular menu options in Irish. For example “Mac Mór” (Big Mac)

I finally figured out that a good Irish equivalent for “McDonald’s” would be “Mhic Dhomhnaill” (since it’s possessive), [color=purple]but why is the “D” lenited? I thought a genitive of a genitive is generally unchanged. 🤷🏻‍♀️
[/color]

No, lenition can almost always be traced back to the previous word which causes it

Mac -> no lenition, Mac Domhnaill
Mic -> lenition, Mhic Dhomhnaill

I’d translate McDonald’s as Tigh Mhic Dhomhnaill

And, I also saw once source that seemed to indicate (but not outright state) that “S”s are specifically not lenited as a genitive of a genitive…[color=blue]so, would “McChicken Sandwich” be “Ceapaire Mhic Sicín”?[/color]

Thanks in advance!

No, c and g aren’t lenited following Mhic at least in surnames: Mhic Carthaigh etc.
But s is lenited.

[Rosie]

Go raibh maith agat, a Labhrás! Very helpful, and great idea to about adding “tigh”! 😃

[Hugo]

While Munster and Connacht use the dative form “tigh” in this context, in Ulster “teach” is used. Rosie, I mention this only because I seem to remember a previous post of yours in which you indicated a preference for ‘Gaeilge Uladh’.

[Labhrás]

While Munster and Connacht use the dative form “tigh” in this context, in Ulster “teach” is used. Rosie, I mention this only because I seem to remember a previous post of yours in which you indicated a preference for ‘Gaeilge Uladh’.

Toigh (or dtoigh) is the Ulster form in this usage, e.g. toigh Sheáin,
(féach: An Teanga Bheo Gaeilge Uladh, 7.1. “toigh gan réamhfhocal”)

[Rosie]

Thank you both (Hugo and Labhrás) for all your info/help! (And for remembering my Ulster preference, Hugo! 😊). I’ve already completed and posted my “McDonald’s Words in Irish” collage on Instagram a couple of days ago using “tigh,” and I’m pretty really happy with it! 👍🏼 (I made sure to thank you, Labhrás, for your help in the caption. ☺️)

Speaking of which, if you’re not already, I think both of you, as well as some others who frequently answer questions on Daltaí, would be great resource material/Irish-language spreaders on Instagram…especially for the younger generation. Y’all know so much! If you ever are on there, my page is @rosie.oleary93; I’d love to follow you! ☘️

[Hugo]

While Munster and Connacht use the dative form “tigh” in this context, in Ulster “teach” is used. Rosie, I mention this only because I seem to remember a previous post of yours in which you indicated a preference for ‘Gaeilge Uladh’.

Toigh (or dtoigh) is the Ulster form in this usage, e.g. toigh Sheáin,
(féach: An Teanga Bheo Gaeilge Uladh, 7.1. “toigh gan réamhfhocal”)

But ‘toigh/dtoigh’ is the dative following a preposition, which, though not present, is understood: ‘Seisiún ceoil tradisiúnta Toigh Hiúdaí anocht’.
Nominative: ‘Tá Teach Mhicí ceart go leor ach is fearr liom Teach Thomais’.

[Labhrás]

While Munster and Connacht use the dative form “tigh” in this context, in Ulster “teach” is used. Rosie, I mention this only because I seem to remember a previous post of yours in which you indicated a preference for ‘Gaeilge Uladh’.

Toigh (or dtoigh) is the Ulster form in this usage, e.g. toigh Sheáin,
(féach: An Teanga Bheo Gaeilge Uladh, 7.1. “toigh gan réamhfhocal”)

But ‘toigh/dtoigh’ is the dative following a preposition, which, though not present, is understood: ‘Seisiún ceoil tradisiúnta Toigh Hiúdaí anocht’.
Nominative: ‘Tá Teach Mhicí ceart go leor ach is fearr liom Teach Thomais’.

Yes, dative is meant in case of a “translation” of the company name McDonald’s.
Nominative would not work.

[Hugo]

Why wouldn’t it? Why would you use the dative here?

I had actually thought you were using the nominative in your first post since ‘tigh’ is used as the nominative and dative in Munster, and so for a moment I assumed that it must be so in Connacht too – though I had always thought ‘teach’ was the nominative there. I got a bit confused. However, I don’t see why you would use the dative and not the nominative when simply stating the name of the pub or shop – e.g. on a pub or shop sign.

[Hugo]

Double post deleted.

[Labhrás]

Why wouldn’t it? Why would you use the dative here?

I had actually thought you were using the nominative in your first post since ‘tigh’ is used as the nominative and dative in Munster, and so for a moment I assumed that it must be so in Connacht too – though I had always thought ‘teach’ was the nominative there. I got a bit confused. However, I don’t see why you would use the dative and not the nominative when simply stating the name of the pub or shop – e.g. on a pub or shop sign.

Because tigh + name is a petrified phrase.
“tigh” is rather a preposition here, not a noun, used like the French preposition “chez”,
chez Jean = tigh Sheáin.

[Author]

Posts