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A couple of very small points from TYI (Munster Version!). [Btw, have we got a standard way of referring to that great edition?]
I’ve just done ex. 40 and I see that a sentence including the phrase ‘No, but I can (fut.) ask (it of) the guard’ is rendered in the answer section as:-
‘ach féadfaidh mé é a fhiafraí . . .’
Now, as the dialect seems always to prefer the analytic verb endings, I wrote ‘féadfad’. Is this plainly wrong? And is the version in the answers in accord with Munster usage? It seems odd to see quite suddenly a synthetic conjugation like that – the first I’ve met in the book for the 1st Person Singular.And while we’re on the subject of the Future Tense, I see that in The Great Irish Verb Book (worth every penny as a wonderful treasure of information) the Future of verbs in the Munster dialect usually ends the 1st Person Plural in -am or -óm. This ending is also given in An Teanga Bheo. As it’s not taught in TYI, is this an ending that I’m liable to hear often or to read?
I’m sorry to come up with such little points: but we learners – as you know – get anxious if the slightest thing occurs in the text that we can’t explain!Bruce
Btw, have we got a standard way of referring to that great edition?
Unfortunately, there’s not a standard way that I am aware of, but “The Great Edition of Teach Yourself Irish” sounds pretty good to me! (well, maybe that’s a bit long) ;-P
Now, as the dialect seems always to prefer the analytic verb endings, I wrote ‘féadfad’.
Actually, féadfad is the synthetic ending.
Is this plainly wrong?
I think féadfad is definitely RIGHT! They just throw in analytic forms once in a while because these forms are used occasionally in Munster, so you will hear both forms being used.
And while we’re on the subject of the Future Tense, I see that in The Great Irish Verb Book (worth every penny as a wonderful treasure of information) the Future of verbs in the Munster dialect usually ends the 1st Person Plural in -am or -óm. This ending is also given in An Teanga Bheo. As it’s not taught in TYI, is this an ending that I’m liable to hear often or to read?
The -am ending is certainly very common in Kerry but not so common in West Cork, I think.
By the way Bruce,
Are you planning on reading Séadna when you finish Teach Yourself Irish? Maybe me, you, and Aislingeach can form a little “book club” – just a thought 🙂
The -am ending is certainly very common in Kerry but not so common in West Cork, I think.
yeah, normally I think they use the endings -faimíd, -fimíd, -óimíd, -eoimíd.
A W-F-M, your expert knowledge of the grammar has cleared up that small problem. The varied endings to verbs are a thing that has largely disappeared altogether in the dialects of Scottish Gaelic that I learnt. But despite their complexity, I still prefer the Munster richness and – though I have no right to say so – I’d probably prefer the old spelling too!
Séadna will have to be dealt with once I reach the other bank of the mighty river of TYI. My text is an edition of 1910 in the old script but at present I would have to look up too many words to enjoy it. I might try a few easier books first.
We learners need lots of reinforcement. I can see I shall need to work through both Nancy Stenson’s books to tighten up my grammar unless you know of better. And they would help with my vocabulary as well – or are there better sources?Bruce
If I am not mistaken, Leabhar Mór Bhriathra na Gaeilge uses Corca Dhuibhne for their Munster entries, while TYI is Múscraí, so the odd difference here and there is to be expected.
I also use Nancy Stenson’s Basic Irish and Intermediate Irish for reinforcement, but I use them in conjunction with TYI. I find the unit that corresponds to the grammar point I am learning in TYI, and do the exercises in Stenson’s workbook. But you will find differences there, as well, and more frequently, as they are in standard rather than dialectal Irish. Still, I find them quite helpful for the extra exercises, and someone here can always explain the differences. Lughaidh, in particular, is extremely helpful when it comes to dialectal variances.
A WFM, you are so far ahead of me that I doubt I’ll be ready for Séadna when you start it….
Bruce, I have a PDF copy of an old dictionary of Múscraí Irish (with pronunciation!), actually it’s a lexicon rather than a dictionary (I don’t think there are many examples in it).
If you give me your e-mail address in a private message I can send it to you.Tá foclóir bunaithe ar shaothar Peadar Ua Laoghaire ar fáil anseo
http://www.corkirish.com/wordpress/my-irish-english-dictionary
I have a PDF copy of an old dictionary of Múscraí Irish (with pronunciation!)
An bhfuil sé le Séamus Ó Duirinne agus Pádraig Ó Dálaigh?
I’ve seen the -am ending in some poems from the Beara Peninsula as well, it was probably more common in the west.
Actually Wee_Falorie_Man I just finished An Cleasaidhe by Peadar Ua Laoghaire and I’d like to start Séadna, so I’d
be interested in that idea you mentioned.I have a PDF copy of an old dictionary of Múscraí Irish (with pronunciation!)
Does anyone know if such a dictionary, with pronunciation, exists for the Cois Fharrige dialect? (Other than the small vocabulary list at the back of Ó Siadhail’s Learning Irish.)
Seáinín
It doesn’t exist, but if you use Learning Irish + The Irish of Cois Fhairrge + Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge: an Deilbhìocht, I think you’ll have the pronunciation of many words.
And I’m not sure that the lexicon at the end of LI contains all the words that are taught in the book…Ós ag caint ar foclóirí muid, tá fios curtha agam, a Lughaidh, ar d’fhoclóir ó Leabhar Breac.
http://www.leabharbreac.com/leabhair.html?pID=54#
(Beidh mé ag dul chuig deisceart na Fraince le mo mhac i Mí Meitheamh)
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