Pronounciation questions: Connacht “de”, “do”, etc.

[Héilics Órbhuí]

Are these more or less always said with a “g” sound, or does it vary between Gaeltachts or depending on other factors? I seem to mostly hear it that way, but sometimes not. Also, breis.focloir.ie differs in some cases from what I’d expect in this regard:

http://breis.focloir.ie/ga/fuaim/d’aon_turas

I thought this was usually like “gaon turas”.

http://breis.focloir.ie/ga/fuaim/d’aon_ghnó

I thought this was usually like “gaon ghró/ghrá”

But if I’m not mistaken, one would still say a slender “d” when the preposition appears alone, i.e. “léigh mé chuid de”?

If someone knows any actual rules for this in Connacht, I’d love to hear them. So far I just go what I hear from various sources and I don’t always know exactly where people are from, so it’s hard to piece together.

[Labhrás]

Are these more or less always said with a “g” sound, or does it vary between Gaeltachts or depending on other factors? I seem to mostly hear it that way, but sometimes not. Also, breis.focloir.ie differs in some cases from what I’d expect in this regard:

http://breis.focloir.ie/ga/fuaim/d’aon_turas

I thought this was usually like “gaon turas”.

http://breis.focloir.ie/ga/fuaim/d’aon_ghnó

I thought this was usually like “gaon ghró/ghrá”

But if I’m not mistaken, one would still say a slender “d” when the preposition appears alone, i.e. “léigh mé chuid de”?

If someone knows any actual rules for this in Connacht, I’d love to hear them. So far I just go what I hear from various sources and I don’t always know exactly where people are from, so it’s hard to piece together.

The phrase “d’aon turas” is perhaps older than the shift from d -> dh -> g .

In “léigh mé chuid de” it isn’t the “preposition alone” but the combination (i.e. prepositional pronoun) “I read a part of it“
de /gÉ™/ + é /e/ = de /d´e/.
So it is pronounced different from the bare preposition, just like díom, díot, di, dínn, díbh, díobh. (all with slender /d´/)

[Cúnla]

“De” and “do” are both pronounced /É¡É™/ in normal speech in Connacht (native speakers sometimes write this as “go”). Native speakers may nonetheless sometimes use a spelling pronunciation, particularly when reading aloud.

As for the prepositional pronouns, if an unlenited form is spoken, it will* indeed begin with a slender /dʲ/… The lenited forms are however more common.

*The real picture in the Gaeltacht is much more complicated. There are d-initial forms, dh-initial forms, and vowel-initial forms, and, furthermore, there are mixed forms combining features of both the {de} and the {do} paradigms. ({de} and {do} have actually been being confused in various ways since at least the Old Irish period). Cf., e.g., The Irish of Iorras Aithneach (Ó Curnáin 2007) and Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (de Bhaldraithe 1953/1977)… For example, de Bhaldraithe gives the following as forms of {de} in the third person plural: díob, dhíob, ’íob, díobh, dhíobh, daob, dhaob, &c.

[Héilics Órbhuí]

“The phrase “d’aon turas” is perhaps older than the shift from d -> dh -> g .”

But I’ve heard native speakers say “g’aon turas” before…
I guess this must be subject to regional variation.

“In “léigh mé chuid de” it isn’t the “preposition alone” but the combination (i.e. prepositional pronoun) “I read a part of it”
de /gÉ™/ + é /e/ = de /d´e/.
So it is pronounced different from the bare preposition, just like díom, díot, di, dínn, díbh, díobh. (all with slender /d´/) “

I am aware of all that, I just said “alone” for simplification.

“*The real picture in the Gaeltacht is much more complicated. There are d-initial forms, dh-initial forms, and vowel-initial forms, and, furthermore, there are mixed forms combining features of both the {de} and the {do} paradigms. ({de} and {do} have actually been being confused in various ways since at least the Old Irish period). Cf., e.g., The Irish of Iorras Aithneach (Ó Curnáin 2007) and Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (de Bhaldraithe 1953/1977)… For example, de Bhaldraithe gives the following as forms of {de} in the third person plural: díob, dhíob, ’íob, díobh, dhíobh, daob, dhaob, &c. “

Yeah, I tend to say the contracted forms of things like ‘di’, ‘díobh’ as though they were lenited, i.e, dhi and dhíobh, and although I’ve heard people say “dhe”, I tend to gravitate towards saying that one with a slender ‘d’, although that seems inconsistent. I have long wondered if there is a real rule to this, but it seems that it’s almost more governed by what sounds good at the time. Most of the contracted forms with broad vowels I say with a “g” or “gh” sound, i.e. dhó, dhaob, etc. Sometimes my natural inclination to say things like “de dhánacht” as “ge dhánacht”, that ends up sounding weird to me, as though I should be saying it with a slender “d” again. I know O Siadhail is supposedly the best learning material on Connacht Irish but I don’t know if it has this detailed pronunciation information for the dialect or if there is a better source for that.

[Onuvanja]

“De” and “do” are both pronounced /É¡É™/ in normal speech in Connacht (native speakers sometimes write this as “go”). Native speakers may nonetheless sometimes use a spelling pronunciation, particularly when reading aloud.

Yes, I would say that pretty much sums it up. It is probably more common to pronounce “d’aois” (e.g. Tá sé trí bliana d’aois) with /É¡/ than with /d/, though I’ve also heard it pronounced with /d/ by people who appear to be native speakers of the dialect.

But then, with personal pronoun forms it’s a different story. For instance, I’ve never heard anyone use /É¡/ in “mar sin de”.

[Labhrás]

From ” The Irish of Iorras Aithneach”, Vol. 3, p. 1358:

“There is some evidence that d(É™) was a regressive variant among the oldest
speakers.”
“Before front vowels g´ is regressive”
“gÉ™ is the almost universal realisation”
“g generally before vowels”

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