Review of Buntús Cainte through Actual Irish Dialects: Chapters 1-9

Fáilte (Welcome) Forums General Discussion (Irish and English) Review of Buntús Cainte through Actual Irish Dialects: Chapters 1-9

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 55 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #45441
    Dáithí
    Participant

    No hyphen, no lenition: “iontach maith” vs “an-mhaith”. I’m no expert but I think they’re broadly interchangeable. As I said above, “iontach” is more common by far. “An-” can sometimes be used as an intensifier with nouns as well as adjectives – “an-chluiche”,”a great game”- but “iontach” can’t.

    Thanks Hugo. Since “iontach” sounds positive, as in “wonderful,” I wonder if “iontach” is only used as a positive intensifier. That is, “iontach maith,” but not “iontach tinn?” Just speculation by this learner.

    Roibeard, thanks for the link – I do see some stuff there, which should help.

    Murchadh – thanks for the insights – what you’ve posted will keep me happily busy for a while. Also, the way in which you swept through the range of chapters and summarized the dialectal variations is so helpful to me as a learner of Irish, which really means a learner of Irish dialects. I always seem to stumble, which can be frustrating but also fun, when I come across a dialectal variation for the first time. And it takes quite a while to figure out what’s going on. For example – “tinn.” The first time I heard it pronounced t ai n’ I thought the individual speaking was just another learner like me. It took me about a year before I stumbled across what was actually going on – turns out she was speaking the Munster dialect! 🙂 And stuff like that happens all the time. So, thanks to all for your contributions so far.

    I think the more members contribute, either with their findings or their own questions, the better. Go raibh míle maith agaibh!

    #45442
    Dáithí
    Participant


    Phonetic symbols as found in ‘Learning Irish’.

    Murchadh – could you please tell me how you type in the phonetic symbols? I’ve been looking into the full IPA, but I think the use Ó Siadhail’s “Learning Irish” phonetic symbols will suit us just fine as you’ve demonstrated here-in already. Is it a matter of selecting the correct keyboard code, say like ALT 160, or do you have to download or use a separate “something else?” Either way, I would really like to know how to include them in my postings.

    Go raibh maith ‘ad. [C] 🙂

    #45443
    Murchadh
    Participant
    #45444
    Dáithí
    Participant

    θæŋks!

    #45445
    Dáithí
    Participant

    I remember listening to Raidió Fáilte a while back and there was a program where someone was reading through BC and they were replacing an- with iontach. I don’t remember if they made any other dialectal changes to it but Dáithí, that may be a place for you to start. I’m sure they have the podcasts up on their website.

    A Roibeaird – I found them – thanks for mentioning this program! It’s so cool to hear BC spoken in the Ulster dialect! Here’s the link in case anyone’s interested:

    http://www.raidiofailte.com/foghlaim/

    I also hear “iontach” instead of the “an” that is written in BC.

    I wonder if any organization has a Munster version of BC. And, maybe there should be a version for Connacht, since the original one is actually people from the Connacht speaking CO, not people from the Connacht speaking Connacht. 🙂

    #45447
    macdara
    Participant

    Slightly off topic – mo leithscéal. I’m on the point of buying BC – but tell me: do the ceachtanna on the discs match up exactly with those in the books? I found the CDs with Teach Yourself very confusing as the text seemed to bear little relation to it. I ended up copying out the correct dialogues or photocopying parts of the book , very messy!

    #45448
    Dáithí
    Participant

    Every chapter is an exact match to the material on the CD’s. And please feel free to ask questions about BC in this thread if you’d like – cen dochar. 🙂

    #45449
    Hugo
    Participant

    Thanks Hugo. Since “iontach” sounds positive, as in “wonderful,” I wonder if “iontach” is only used as a positive intensifier. That is, “iontach maith,” but not “iontach tinn?” Just speculation by this learner.

    You can use it in all contexts. We like to keep things simple. 🙂

    #45450
    Héilics Órbhuí
    Participant

    The speakers pronounce inniu as if it were spelt inniubh. This is the norm in M. I’m surprised to hear Conamara speakers use it.

    I’ve heard Connemara speakers say this. I’m not sure if it varies from village to village or not, but I feel like I have noticed a bit of cross-over in general with “u” final words, like inniu/inniubh, acu/acubh, etc. in Connemara. In reality, in fact, it seems that creating a three-dialect distinction that works in every case runs counter to reality. In fact, there seem to be many many dialects all of which have their own unique features. You can make generalizations that break these out into the three categories, but you will inevitably find examples which betray this scheme. That’s my observation, anyways.

    #45451
    Roibeard
    Participant

    In reality, in fact, it seems that creating a three-dialect distinction that works in every case runs counter to reality. In fact, there seem to be many many dialects all of which have their own unique features. You can make generalizations that break these out into the three categories, but you will inevitably find examples which betray this scheme. That’s my observation, anyways.

    My teacher once had me reading a book that was written by someone who, like her, was from Conamara. We came across a word (which I unfortunately can’t recall right now) but I knew it wasn’t a word she would have used so I asked her about it. She said, “oh, that’s how they say it up in his place.” I said “I thought you were from the same area” and she said, “oh no, he’s about five miles up the road.”

    #45454
    Dáithí
    Participant

    Chapter 4
    Excerpts from Chapter 4 with possible dialectal variations applied:
    Tá mé go iontach maith, buíochas le Dia. [U]
    Níl, maise, nil mé fuar ar aon chor [M]

    Corrections welcomed and appreciated – thanks.

    #45455
    Wee_Falorie_Man
    Participant

    Níl, maise, nil mé fuar ar aon chor [M]

    An bhfuileann tú fuar?
    Nílim, mhuise, nílim fuar in aon chor. (Gaolainn na Mumhan)

    #45456
    Murchadh
    Participant

    Níl, maise, nil mé fuar ar aon chor [M]

    An bhfuileann tú fuar?
    Nílim, mhuise, nílim fuar in aon chor. (Gaolainn na Mumhan)

    Yes, i n-aon chor / in aon chor is correct.
    ar aon chor” in my earlier post (#14) was an error, I’ve corrected it.

    #45457
    Dáithí
    Participant

    Chapter 5
    We’re introduced for the first time to prepositions and how they affect the nouns following them. The presentation of “sa” is later re-enforced in Chapter 7, and in all examples sa causes lenition – and there’s no prefixing of t with words that begin with s.
    As Murchadh wrote earlier:

    – Sa (ins an) causes eclipses in parts of C & M, e.g. sa mbaile etc. In most of the areas in which it causes lenition, t is prefixed to initial s, e.g. sa tseomra.

    .
    I see in Ó Siadhail’s Learning Irish, which as many of you know is in the Cois Fhairrge dialect, that sa eclipses. I would be interested in knowing in which dialect t is prefixed to s, since this action was suppressed in Buntús Cainte (I think).
    And what about for the Ulster dialect – lenition or eclipsis?

    #45458
    Wee_Falorie_Man
    Participant

    In Cork it’s sa tseomra.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 55 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Daltaí na Gaeilge