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This man was executed in Virgina yesterday and his last words were “Póg mó thóin. God bless.”
I can’t really decide if that’s more funny or more sad. Apparently he was fond of the former phrase and repeated it often. I’m sure it was probably the only Irish he knew. I see the phrase on bumper stickers fairly often and it always makes me feel some sort of annoyance. Why, of all the rich phrases that Irish has, has this become the only thing that even many people who are fiercely proud of their Irish heritage can say in the language (aside from the occasional “erin go braw”).
I guess I don’t really have a definite point here. I could ask why you think people of Irish heritage have an interest in their language that typically extends no further than learning to tell someone to sod off, but I guess the answer to that is probably laziness, lack of real passion, or resources. I could ask why you think droll phrases like that have become so proliferated in Irish (i.e. who IS making those bumper stickers, anyways?), but I guess the answer is probably ignorance and desire to make a quick buck. Who knows..
Haigh, a Héilics.
A phrase that comes to mind in response to some of your questions is “internalized oppression” which has a very specific meaning to me. I think of the history of oppression we Irish have faced: subjugated, impoverished, belittled, the forced dissolution of our culture including the loss of our native language. There are messages that get in our heads as a result of generations of external oppression: that question our worth, that leave us feeling of lower status, that our minds are not as good as, that our ways are silly. We internalize this stuff as a people such that, even after the external conditions have changed, the internalized confusion lingers on and presents us with barriers we have to overcome to be able to tell that we are smart enough to do something like learn a language, or to remember that it is worth our efforts to reclaim this part of our proud heritage and ensure its flourishing. It’s an internal fight that I would guess we all face, to differing degrees, and some just haven’t had the right mix of fortunate conditions and resources to be able to get very far there. Certainly Robert Gleason Jr. didn’t. Grásta ó Dhia ar a anam.
Good thoughts, a Sheáinín. In particular, what you said about remembering that it’s worth doing resonated with me. It’s something that even I, with my enormous love of the language, have struggled with to some degree. It’s difficult, in fact, to say how long I’ve really been learning Irish because I haven’t been consistent in my study at all since I began probably 10 years ago. There were at least one or two periods of over a year in duration in there where I didn’t involve myself with the language at all. The last couple of years I have been somewhat more intensive about it, but even then I will sometimes go weeks without reading anything or watching any movies. At this point I am rather secure in my desire to push on learning until I become fluent or die, but I have reached points before where the difficulty of the language seemed to outweigh the prospect of even being in a situation where I could use it. Now it isn’t even about that. And so for me, remembering that it is a part of my soul and one of the things that truly puts a smile on my face is not difficult. But that is a surety that I’ve arrived at over time and through much hard work. As you say, it’s a marginalized language, and for most people, especially those living abroad, there is little or no sense of immediacy or duty to keep something alive that appears to be doomed or unimportant. And certainly not everyone has the opportunity to even do something about it. Because of the internet, that’s starting to change, but the access to native speakers is still a serious limiting factor. Again, I’m not sure exactly what my point what in all this, but for some reason the example of someone choosing to literally conclude their life by uttering those words seemed a powerful one on some level. I’m not sure what it means, but it is food for thought 😉
I take it you’re not a fan of the death penalty? That’s a completely different topic, I think, that I wouldn’t presume to breach on this board (which is probably more concerned with the use of Irish than it is with the intricacies of capital punishment).
You tell me that you agree that it’s a point to be discussed elsewhere but then ask why I didn’t find it worth noting over the actual topic?
I think you’ve wholly missed the point and I’m going to bow out of this conversation before I say something unpleasant.
Well, I tried to resist, but here I am again.
Your points are honestly offensively misplaced, in my opinion. You admit to having ignorance of Irish Americans, but think you somehow know enough to have any frame of reference here. You don’t.
I also never said anyone should be forced to learn the language, so thanks for putting words in my mouth there. I’m talking about Irish Americans who think that learning how to say “kiss my ass” constitutes an appreciation or interest in their heritage. If you somehow want to argue that that isn’t a piss-poor attitude to have towards a language, then be my guest. No one is forcing them to learn the language but no one is keeping them from it either.
And I’ve been to Ireland and know apparently more about the state of the language there than you know about the state of the language here, so when we’re talking about Irish in Ireland then you can tell me if I’m ignorant or not. Until then, why don’t you stick to talking about what you know and like (i.e. the death penalty and Irish in Ireland)?
“You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that these people are under some sort of obligation to know more about Irish than “póg mo thóin” on the sole premise that their ancestors came from Ireland.”
-If that is what you still believe I’m saying, then I’m either a REALLY bad explainer (I’ve now said in plain English that I am NOT saying that, in a previous post) or you are a really poor reader.-You seem to think I’m talking about ALL people of Irish ancestry everywhere. That simply isn’t what I’m saying.
-I never said “póg mo thóin” is disdainful of Irish. But if you asked someone if they know any English and they nodded their head and said “Fuck you, man!” what would you think of them? They don’t know how to say “thank you”? “Hello”? Classy..
-Where was Gleason from and where was he executed? In Virginia. Where is Virginia? Is it in:
A. Mozambique
B. Ireland
C. America
D. The Moon
I am and always have been talking about certain people in AMERICA and their attitude towards Irish. You’re in the wrong swimming pool, kid.I’m such a lousy explainer yet you can’t read a simple statement of fact at face value…. /facepalm
“”Where was Gleason from and where was he executed? In Virginia. Where is Virginia?”
– And your point being?”
If you can’t see the relevance, being that I was talking about Irish in AMERICA (you still haven’t caught onto that, I guess), then there is literally no hope for you as a rational thinking individual. Have a nice life, sir. Don’t bother responding if it’s for my benefit, as I’ve placed you on ignore and won’t be seeing it.
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