Fáilte (Welcome) › Forums › General Discussion (Irish and English) › Saorbhriathar misuse?
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Héilics Órbhuí.
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January 7, 2016 at 11:04 pm #36886
Learphollach
ParticipantReading a news item on [url=http://www.tg4.ie/ga/nuacht/?id=758305]Nuacht TG4[/url], i came across this sentence:
Níl a fhios go fóill áfach a bhfuil aon bheartas ann faoina bhféadfaidh teaghlaigh díluacháil a dhéanamh ar na tithe a buaileadh ag tuilte…
Am I correct in thinking that this is the autonomous/saorbhriathar “buaileadh” and is being used “improperly” here with an agent, “ag tuilte“?
I have found some other examples of this usage, including in the Irish version of a [url=http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Corporate/Annual_Report_Irish_Version.pdf]report[/url] (PDF) from the Health & Safety Authority:
Ar 6 Márta 2006, buaileadh fostaí ag béalmhír druilire ó innealra muilleála…a bhí ag bogadh faoi luas
and even on [url=http://www.beo.ie/alt-an-chior-thuathail-in-ollscoileanna-na-fraince.aspx]Beo![/url]
…ceann de na hollscoileanna is mó a buaileadh ag stailceanna le trí bliana anuas.
(which is also cited as an example on [url=http://www.potafocal.com/beo/?s=hit+by]Pota Focal[/url].)
January 8, 2016 at 3:03 pm #45836Cúnla
ParticipantNormally it’s not used with an agent like that, but it’s not strictly incorrect to do so, and such constructions have existed in the language for a long time.
January 8, 2016 at 5:40 pm #45837Labhrás
ParticipantThere’s a paper by D. Ó Sé in Ériu, Vol. 56 (2006), pp. 85-115:
“Agent Phrases with the Autonomous Verb in Modern Irish”
Online at jstor:
http://www.jstor.org/stable/30007052?loginSuccess=true&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contentsJanuary 24, 2016 at 4:57 pm #45841Héilics Órbhuí
ParticipantNo, that usage is fine.
January 26, 2016 at 8:21 pm #45843Hugo
ParticipantNo, that usage is fine.
Sez who?
January 26, 2016 at 10:25 pm #45844Héilics Órbhuí
ParticipantCheapfainn go bhfuil sé sin soiléir.
January 27, 2016 at 12:49 pm #45847Hugo
ParticipantTusa a deir?
January 27, 2016 at 4:27 pm #45848Héilics Órbhuí
ParticipantAn bhfuil rud eicint ag dó ne geirbe agat?
January 27, 2016 at 6:18 pm #45849Hugo
ParticipantTá leoga. 🙂 Mí-úsáid an tsaorbhriathair – comhréir an Bhéarla a bheith á brú ar an Ghaeilge.
January 27, 2016 at 9:10 pm #45850Seáinín
ParticipantA Hugo, má tá point á dhéanamh agat, cuir in iúl go hiomlán é, le do thoil. Ar an taobh eile, má tá troid de dhíth ort, tóg go háit éigin eile é.
January 28, 2016 at 4:30 am #45852Héilics Órbhuí
ParticipantB’fhéidir nach bhfuil an ceart agam, ach tá a leithéid in úsáid go forleathan fiú amháin i measc cainteoirí líofa/dhúchais sa lá atá inniu ann. Feicim gur cheadaítí é i nGaeilge anallód leis na réamfhocail “ag, le, ó” (muna bhfuil dul amú orm). Mar sin is léir go bhfuil an “mhí-úsáid” sa teanga i bhfoirm amháin nó i bhfoirm eile le fada an lá.
Mar a dúirt Seáinín, má tá tuairim faoi leith agat maidir leis, abair amach é. Ní ollamh mise, agus ní miste liom ceartúcháin. Ach más ag iarraidh cé hé mise atá tú, níl móran le rá agam faoi cheist chomh suarach leis sin.
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