Saorbhriathar misuse?

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  • #36886
    Learphollach
    Participant

    Reading a news item on [url=http://www.tg4.ie/ga/nuacht/?id=758305]Nuacht TG4[/url], i came across this sentence:

    Níl a fhios go fóill áfach a bhfuil aon bheartas ann faoina bhféadfaidh teaghlaigh díluacháil a dhéanamh ar na tithe a buaileadh ag tuilte

    Am I correct in thinking that this is the autonomous/saorbhriathar “buaileadh” and is being used “improperly” here with an agent, “ag tuilte“?

    I have found some other examples of this usage, including in the Irish version of a [url=http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Corporate/Annual_Report_Irish_Version.pdf]report[/url] (PDF) from the Health & Safety Authority:

    Ar 6 Márta 2006, buaileadh fostaí ag béalmhír druilire ó innealra muilleála…a bhí ag bogadh faoi luas

    and even on [url=http://www.beo.ie/alt-an-chior-thuathail-in-ollscoileanna-na-fraince.aspx]Beo![/url]

    …ceann de na hollscoileanna is mó a buaileadh ag stailceanna le trí bliana anuas.

    (which is also cited as an example on [url=http://www.potafocal.com/beo/?s=hit+by]Pota Focal[/url].)

    #45836
    Cúnla
    Participant

    Normally it’s not used with an agent like that, but it’s not strictly incorrect to do so, and such constructions have existed in the language for a long time.

    #45837
    Labhrás
    Participant

    There’s a paper by D. Ó Sé in Ériu, Vol. 56 (2006), pp. 85-115:
    “Agent Phrases with the Autonomous Verb in Modern Irish”
    Online at jstor:
    http://www.jstor.org/stable/30007052?loginSuccess=true&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    #45841
    Héilics Órbhuí
    Participant

    No, that usage is fine.

    #45843
    Hugo
    Participant

    No, that usage is fine.

    Sez who?

    #45844
    Héilics Órbhuí
    Participant

    Cheapfainn go bhfuil sé sin soiléir.

    #45847
    Hugo
    Participant

    Tusa a deir?

    #45848
    Héilics Órbhuí
    Participant

    An bhfuil rud eicint ag dó ne geirbe agat?

    #45849
    Hugo
    Participant

    Tá leoga. 🙂 Mí-úsáid an tsaorbhriathair – comhréir an Bhéarla a bheith á brú ar an Ghaeilge.

    #45850
    Seáinín
    Participant

    A Hugo, má tá point á dhéanamh agat, cuir in iúl go hiomlán é, le do thoil. Ar an taobh eile, má tá troid de dhíth ort, tóg go háit éigin eile é.

    #45852
    Héilics Órbhuí
    Participant

    B’fhéidir nach bhfuil an ceart agam, ach tá a leithéid in úsáid go forleathan fiú amháin i measc cainteoirí líofa/dhúchais sa lá atá inniu ann. Feicim gur cheadaítí é i nGaeilge anallód leis na réamfhocail “ag, le, ó” (muna bhfuil dul amú orm). Mar sin is léir go bhfuil an “mhí-úsáid” sa teanga i bhfoirm amháin nó i bhfoirm eile le fada an lá.

    Mar a dúirt Seáinín, má tá tuairim faoi leith agat maidir leis, abair amach é. Ní ollamh mise, agus ní miste liom ceartúcháin. Ach más ag iarraidh cé hé mise atá tú, níl móran le rá agam faoi cheist chomh suarach leis sin.

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