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I know this was brought up in some earlier forums here, but I have a couple of questions regarding a couple of words in the Lord’s Prayer–naofar and bhféichiúna–not about whether or not they should be used, but about how they are derived.
They come up in “go naofar d’ainm (hallowed be thy name)” and “mar a mhaithimidne dár bhféichiúna féin (as we forgive our debtors, or those who trespass against us).” I have a copy of the Standard Official Irish Bible (Catholic, 1981), and it does indeed use those two words in Matha 6:9ff, although I have no trouble with searches in Google and Corpas na Gaeilge that also give me several hits on “go naomhítear d’ainm” and “dár bhféichiúnaithe féin” (I also found the second under féichiúnaí right in Ó Dónaill!). So it’s obvious that this prayer is said with slight differences in different places (as is the case here in the US). There are also a couple of instances of “go naomhtar,” and I see in Ó Dónaill naomh can be used as a verb equivalent to naomhaigh, just as it accepts naofar as an alternate impersonal indicative and subjunctive for naomhítear.
By now (if you’ve read this far) :-/ you must wonder what my question is. Sorry it took me this long to get there. Mostly, I’m just curious what gets used the most in Ireland, and whether it’s mostly a matter of different dialects (or perhaps a Protestant/Catholic thing). I understand naofar, but is it used in common speech today? It must be arrived at from naomh+tar the same way the verbal adjective naofa would be from naomh+ta. I can find scríofar, but it seems to just be a shortening of scríobhfar, because it always seems to be in future statements.
As for (bh)féichiúna where does the word come from? I can’t find similar contractions on other -aithe words. Is this the na emphatic ending (note that it’s preceded by the emphatic maithimidne), shortening the -aithe ending for simplicity, but if so wouldn’t it be bhféichiún-na? Or is the féin there to take care of the emphatic part so as to avoid an awkward “dár bhféichiúnaithene?” Is the emphatic ending ever really used on words that long?
I hope you don’t mind questions like these. Actually, I was just thumbing through the Irish Bible and found these differences, and decided to look into them a little. I also found some differences in a few other prayers and passages, but could always resolve any real conflicts. Just one question in that regard, though: do you usually hear “world without end” as “le saol na saol” or as “trí shaol na saol?” Is there any difference in implication? I find both, and they seem to appear with about equal frequency.
Thanks for any input you can provide!
I’m not a native speaker, but being a Catholic for nearly 70 years, I’ve heard a lot of “Our Father”s ..
We’ve always said “naoftar” (subjunctive – ?Briathar Saor) and “le saol na saol”
When I was at school in the 1950s, we didn’t use “fiacha” or “feiciúna” …
we said something like ” i gcionn xxx in ár n-adhaigh” (it’s so long ago, that I’ve forgotten)eadaoin
Naofar
There are first and second conjugation versions of this verb:-
1st. naomh, naomhaim, naomhann etc., &
2nd. naomhuigh, naomhuighim, naomhuigheann etc. (C.O. spelling: naomhaigh, naomhaím, naomhaíonn etc.).
The autonomous endings beginning with t were originally (and still are to some extent dialectically) lenited when affixed to a word ending in b, bh, c, g, gh[color=red]*[/color], m, mh, & p (just as the past participle endings still are), so:-
naomhtar & naomhthar (c.o. naofar)
naomhuightear & naomhuighthear (c.o. naomhaítear & naomhaíthear)Féichiúna
The original form of this noun was féicheamh, gen. féichimh or féicheamhan, pl. féicheamhna (c.o. féichiúna as above).
Two variants developed:-
féicheamhnach, pl. féicheamhnaigh, &
féicheamhnaidhe, pl. féicheamhnaidhthe (c.o. féichiúnaí, pl. féichiúnaithe)([color=red]*[/color]apart from single syllable verbs)
I hope this is of help.
I’m not a native speaker, but being a Catholic for nearly 70 years, I’ve heard a lot of “Our Father”s ..
We’ve always said “naoftar” (subjunctive – ?Briathar Saor) and “le saol na saol”
When I was at school in the 1950s, we didn’t use “fiacha” or “feiciúna” …
we said something like ” i gcionn xxx in ár n-adhaigh” (it’s so long ago, that I’ve forgotten)eadaoin
“…a chionntuigheann inár n-aghaidh…”
“…a chionntuigheann inár n-aghaidh…”
GRMA Murcadh
.. something like that, anyway … maybe “a chionntuigheadh inár n-aghaidh” ..eadaoin
Thank you both. This pretty much explains everything I was looking for, and I appreciate the help. The bible has simply retained the older, i.e. traditional versions of these words–and after all, that’s what bibles do, all over the world! I now feel comfortable just sticking with naofar and féichiúna as I learn the prayer, as they sound better than naomhaítear and féichiúnaithe in this context.
Go raibh maith agaibh faoin gcabhair, a chairde!
Duncan
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