“Vacation” planning

[Jonas]

Regarding the differences in the Irish of speakers from different parts of Corca Dhuibhne, I would
say that “in general” (from my very amateur observations!) as you move away from Dún Chaoin
the Irish has more archaic/older features, it becomes more like Cork Irish essentially.

For example the dative would not be as common in Dún Chaoin as in Feothanach. The genitive is more
likely to be dropped. Of course these differences are at a very subtle level.

For example, the dative singular is only really used, in my experience, with a few common words in
Dún Urlann and Dún Chaoin. Further east in Corca Dhuibhne, you might see it used with feminine nouns
in general. Then, in Cork, the dative is typical.
Another example is the dative plural ending -(a)ibh. This is not really a part of the living
grammar in Dún Chaoin, but is used in fixed phrases. Further east people will use it more frequently
although still within fixed constructions e.g. Trí cinn de bhuaibh*. Then in Cork**, people will use it
outside fixed phrases and constructions, although it still wouldn’t be common.

That’s my general impression, but I’m no expert!

*I know this is also used near Dún Chaoin, but this type of usage gets more common further east.
**My experience of Cork is mostly Béal Átha ‘n Ghaorthaidh.

Yes, the pronunciation definitely becomes more like Cork Irish when moving eastwards. Then again, I usually find Corca Dhuibhne Irish more archaic than Cork Irish these days, though that was certainly not the case only a few decades ago. In my experience, the older verb conjugations are much more common in Corca Dhuibhne. I don’t think I ever heard anyone in Corca Dhuibhne use bhí mé or bhí tú, while I’ve heard them quite often in Cúil Aodha, particularly from younger speaker. Perhaps the influence of some teachers in Múscraí who aren’t from the area?

[An Lon Dubh]

Yes, the pronunciation definitely becomes more like Cork Irish when moving eastwards. Then again, I usually find Corca Dhuibhne Irish more archaic than Cork Irish these days, though that was certainly not the case only a few decades ago. In my experience, the older verb conjugations are much more common in Corca Dhuibhne. I don’t think I ever heard anyone in Corca Dhuibhne use bhí mé or bhí tú, while I’ve heard them quite often in Cúil Aodha, particularly from younger speaker. Perhaps the influence of some teachers in Múscraí who aren’t from the area?

Oh, you’re definitely correct. Young speakers in Kerry use the traditional Irish of Corca Dhuibhne, but young
Cork speakers have more Standard Irish in their speech. It actually makes the Gaeltacht Mhúsgraí somewhat
unusual since you have older speakers using things like irregular duals (dhá bhoin), genitive duals (radharc an dá súl),
original nominative forms (An Abha), more archaic than what you would find in Corca Dhuibhne, but then the younger
speakers might use basically standard Irish, sometimes even with English phonetics.
You don’t really get that kind of range in Corca Dhuibhne.

[Daithi Carr]

if younger speakers are using standard Irish with English phonetics would that not indicate that they are learning their Irish in school and not in the home/community ?

I dont know why all or most the teachers in and near any gaeltachts are not from that gaeltacht or at least proficient in its dialect.
They could still teach standard Irish along with the dialect ?

[Jonas]

if younger speakers are using standard Irish with English phonetics would that not indicate that they are learning their Irish in school and not in the home/community ?

I dont know why all or most the teachers in and near any gaeltachts are not from that gaeltacht or at least proficient in its dialect.
They could still teach standard Irish along with the dialect ?

Unfortunately, there are some “Gaeltacht” areas where hardly anyone is a native speaker of Irish. In real gaeltachtaí like Corca Dhuibhne, CF+Conamara, and Northwestern Donegal, kids learn Irish speaking with their parents, just like almost all people learn their native language. Then there are some areas where that is not the case, and the parents pretty much rely on the school to make sure that the kids learn Irish. Past of the West Cork Gaeltacht definitely fall into this category. Having said that, I have met young native speakers in Cúil Aodha who are indeed true native speakers. Though I would be surprised if many kids in Baile Bhuirne speak Irish at home with their parents.

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