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May 19, 2014 at 9:40 pm in reply to: More than one way to express some thoughts–which to use? #45274
Thanks–I agree that appearance is everything, and I was getting frustrated trying different character symbols for the carriage return, Alt+Enter, and the like. Now I know what to do. So it turns out to be “try, try, again,” which could be the subtitle of my life. 😆May 19, 2014 at 5:53 pm in reply to: More than one way to express some thoughts–which to use? #45272
Thanks for those excellent remarks. I agree especially that the biggest challenge is to “think Irish” (or whatever language you’re working with). I’m sure that knowing several languages can be invaluable in learning a new one. I do speak German, and its approach to the genitive (and even the dative) case helped me immensely to pick up on what was “going on” when Rosetta Stone started to spring the genitive case on me! Like you, I also was impressed by how figurative and idiomatic the Gaelic language is–it also explains why the Irish people have such unique, colorful ways of expressing themselves, even when they’re speaking English! My late wife was Irish, and I always loved just listening to her talk.
Yes, I really like the O’Donnell for seeing several approaches to interpreting words. The De Bhaldraithe English-Irish is great for finding the exact expression you want and locating the Irish version. And the “Foclóir Póca” is good because, if you see too many alternatives in the big dictionaries, you can get a smaller list which will, of course, tend to carry the more ordinary usages. In several instances, however, I saw options but nothing about the prevalent usages, and of course I can’t tell the dictionary what confuses me and get it to explain it to me! That’s how I came up with my questions for this posting.
I’ll check into An Foclóir Beag; that should make a good addition to my vocabulary.
I liked your statement about several meanings to a word. One of the first things that had me wondering “what the heck” was to learn, as per your remark, that glas=green, and then (just out of curiosity to learn other colors) look up gray in the dictionary and see glas! Of course liath was there too, but it took a chat with my online mentor to find out that glas is mostly for animals and metals.
About Rosetta Stone: I would recommend it to anyone for a good online introduction to a language, Irish or otherwise. It does a really good job with speaking experience, as you get to converse with an online mentor periodically; this means that you almost immediately get good instruction in pronunciation (as well as learning that there are several ways to say certain words, even within Caighdeán!). On the other hand, you come out with a limited vocabulary, and they never do actually explain the grammar (although Stenson handles that nicely). For this reason, I’m working on expanding my vocabulary, and I was fortunate in finding this forum in which I can ask the questions that still remain. There are so many helpful people here, and I’ve been able to clear up a lot of questions already. I read about the need for support, so I sent a check last week and hope that it will help keep things running smoothly. I know that I’ll keep coming up with questions; I just hope I don’t end up being a nuisance.
Finally, a question completely unrelated to any of this: How do you get the spaces between your paragraphs??? I do an extra carriage return at the end of each paragraph, and it looks as if it’s working, but when the message gets posted the white space disappears!May 19, 2014 at 11:08 am in reply to: More than one way to express some thoughts–which to use? #45269
Thanks for all the information. You can see that I had the exact opposite ideas of, for example, “éag” and “faigh bás” in #3.
5. I see that you use the future tense here. It does make the statement more appropriate because we’re obviously going to swim at a later time! It’s ideas like this that help me to “think the language.”
6. Kind of what I expected. I was just a little fascinated with the word “ar” but see that I can pretty much forget it and stick to abair, inis, etc.
7. Thanks in particular for pointing out the difference here. I was wondering why have both the words, but see the differences.
9. Another example of how I can tweak the words for better expression: I hadn’t thought of “an oiread sin” instead of just “oiread,” but now I remember that you usually also see “an” in front of iomarca.
Yes, I see several examples in the dictionary, and I have good ones (O’Donnell Gaeilge-Béarla; De Bhaldraithe English-Irish; and a little “Foclóir Póca”) and Nancy Stenson’s Basic/Intermediate Irish grammar books–but these can’t reply to specific questions the way you did. You cleared up a lot of fine points they couldn’t. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to do so. 🙂
Thanks to both of you for your very helpful responses. You’ve cleared up several of the finer points that had me a little confused. Rosetta Stone is excellent for developing speaking ability and a good everyday vocabulary, but the grammatical aspect sometimes gets ambiguous or is incomplete. For example, we were well drilled about the use of the genitive “tí” but I had never realized that there was such a word as “tigh!” I had learned about certain datives like “láimh” and “cois” (mainly with body parts), but didn’t know about a dative for “teach.” Thanks for the examples using tigh. I had better go back to the dictionary and look over my vocabulary nouns and see what other common words have special datives.
As a new member, I’m always impressed with and most appreciative of the fast, thoughtful answers I get here. Beidh mé ar ais le ceisteanna eile ó am go ham–go raibh maith agaibh arís faoin gcabhair, mo chairde!
In reply to Bríd Mhór’s question on Rosetta Stone, I thought it was a fine program. The Irish has three levels, while some languages like Spanish and German have five, but the three covered quite a lot of things. We were just starting the subjunctive and the autonomous (impersonal) at the very end, and I can pick up on that stuff in Stenson’s book.
I will say that, until near the end, it focuses mostly on speaking, and with the online sessions I did get some excellent experience speaking the language. In retrospect, I wish I had looked into the grammar a little earlier, though–my fault.
Anyway, to sum it up, I feel Rosetta Stone does a really good job of introducing practical use to the language, and is a good way to begin. It leaves you with a good background that you can then build on.
Thanks for the help, everybody!
Thanks for all the info! I appreciate knowing the different treatment of taitin; should have stuck with maith liom. And thanks for the reminder about the two articles; I have a hard time remembering that rule. Just getting used to the language, so I like reminders like this.
Regarding aiféala, then, that makes it just like using “Tá brón orm.” With what you said about aiféaltas, “Tá aiféaltas orm” probably best describes the state of affairs under the circumstances. That’s nice to know (and I’ll probably have good use for it again in the future) :cheese: Again, thanks for the note on usage here.
And thanks for pointing out the edit button–I should have thought of that, but I evidently wasn’t thinking of much of anything at the time!!!
It’s great getting help like this. Having finished Rosetta Stone, I’m now trying to apply what I learned, and it’s easy to mess up.
On lunch break and had time to pay better attention. This is absolutely the last time I try this:
Taitníonn an fhoghlaim na Gaeilge liom.
I also found a new word to add go my vocabulary: Táim aiféalach! :red:
One last try. Sorry–was rushing to leave for work and got careless. Didn’t mean to clutter the board. Is there a way to delete a reply once you post it?
Taitníonn an fhoglaim Gaeilge liom!!!
Third time’s a charm: Tatníonn an fhoghlaim Gaeilge liom!!
(Must learn to proofread before posting)
Oops, forgot that -aim was feminine, so
Tatníonn an fhoglaim Gaeilge liom!
Thanks, everybody. I think the big point here is that we Americans get a little too wrapped up with insisting on perfect tenses. I really appreciate getting your input on usage; you’ve cleared up a lot of “up-in-the-air” questions I was left with. I’ll probably be back with other questions from time to time.
Go raibh maith agaibh, mo chairde!
Tatníonn an foghlaim Gaeilge liom. [I hope I said that right] :down:
Sorry, “ba cheart”–got a little overzealous with the accents :cheese:
Thanks for some good insight. I can see that I’ve been trying to overuse the perfect tenses, and, honestly, I suspected that to be the case. Obviously your “Conas a bheadh a fhios agam?” is far less awkward and states the thought perfectly. I think I’ll look at perfect tenses for use mostly as I see them in Stenson, and will stick to the simple tenses otherwise.
No, Rosetta Stone never mentions participles of necessity. I just ran across the term in some online material, and found “beite” in Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla (Niall Ó Dónaill), and there it’s used in, e.g. “Is beite do dhuine Dia a ghuí: One should pray to God”–apparently using “is beite” like “bá cheart.”
Go raibh maith agat.
Thanks, everyone. This pretty much clears up what I was wondering about. I’m just now getting used to the forum, so hope I’m using proper etiquette, etc. It’s been a great experience, and I wish I had joined earlier.
Go raibh maith agaibh, mo chairde!