Klisz

Forum Replies Created

Viewing 5 posts - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • in reply to: #41264
    Klisz
    Participant

    So, the T prefix on both S and vowels has he same origin, although not the in the way I imagined.
    Is it known when did the gender distinction come into effect?

    You mean the gender distinction of t- prefixation? I think that the gender distinction of t- prefixation which we have today is just coincidental. Originally it was based on phonological processes irrelevant to the gender and when the phonological environment for those processes was lost (due to the old lenition of intervocalic consonants and the word-final vowels/consonants reduction) we ended up with a system of grammatical rules for lenition, eclipsis and prefixation, but they all have their roots in the phonological interactions between words in phrases.

    E.g. today a – his causes lenition of the following consonant, but a – her doesn’t (but prefixes h- to vowels), it implies that originally a – his (whatever its original form was) must have ended with a vowel, but a – her (whatever its original form was) must have ended with consonant (most likely it was “s”), thus no lenition of consonants but “h” before vowels (because lenited “s” gives “h”). So historically speaking, h- prefix has its direct roots in the lenition of a consonant (here it’s “s”) irrelevant to gender (at first lenition was only dependent on the position: consonants between vowels/sonorants were lenited), t- prefix has its roots in lenition as well (but here other processes also took place, i.e. reduction of word-final syllable and devoicing in the article).

    When did the gender distinction come into effect? I think it happened before the Old Irish period, because most o
    f the phonological environment for lenition had already been lost in Old Irish, but it’s really hard to tell.

    in reply to: #41245
    Klisz
    Participant

    Historical reasons for t- prefixation:
    the t- comes originally from the article, its reappearance in the Modern Irish (as a prefix) was initiated by the old lenition process (intervocalic lenition) and the word-final vowel reduction (in the article) in Proto-Irish or earlier:

    *sindos aθer → *sindah aθer → *(s)indhaθʲirʲ → Old Irish: int ath(a)ir → Irish: an t-athair — the father
    *sindā sÅ«li → *sindā hÅ«lis → *(s)indhÅ«il → Old Irish: int ṡúil [ɪnÌªË t hu:lʲ] → Irish: an tsúil [É™(nÌªË )tÌªË u:lʲ] — the eye

    The t- prefix is rather just a spelling convention, we could probably spell those words as: ant athair, ant shúil. And it might be easier for learners to understand that we have two forms of the article in nominative/accusative singular: an and *ant (before vowel of masculine nouns and before s of feminine nouns), but on the other hand, maybe it’s just easier to learn the rules of t- prefixation ;-P .

    in reply to: #41210
    Klisz
    Participant

    … ó mo sheanathair nuair a bhíos páiste, and the structure was ringing a bell.

    ó mo sheanathair nuair a bhíos i mo pháiste

    in reply to: #40742
    Klisz
    Participant

    Go raibh maith agaibh, a Lughaidh agus a Aonghuis.

    Apparently, I incorrectly assumed that “Gaeilge” itself was somewhat definite, but thanks for your clarification.

    in reply to: #40541
    Klisz
    Participant


    There’s another form of it in “a dh'”, that people sometimes use in Ulster before vowel sounds:

    mise a dh’fhágáil anseo
    tobaca a dh’fháilt dó

    The same is true for Corca Dhuibhne Irish, i.e. a dh’ before vowel sounds, so:
    “An bhfuilir chun mise a dh’fhágaint anso?”
    “D’iarr m’athair orm dul go dtí an siopa agus tobac a dh’fháil dó” or even: “Do dh’iarr m’athair orm dul go dtí an siopa agus tobac a dh’fháil dó.”

    (According to “Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne” Ó Sé)

Viewing 5 posts - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)