Murchadh

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  • Murchadh
    Participant

    My guess would be something like ‘bred’ = ‘bréid’ frieze, cloth. Monks in rough homespun robes perhaps?
    Or, ‘bred’ (‘bredh’ < 'breth') = 'judgement'. A group of legal experts/brehons? I haven’t a clue other than that 🙂

    in reply to: Translation help – Early Modern Irish #45609
    Murchadh
    Participant

    This is about as close as I can get to making sense of it:

    (Mepruicch gach rand marbhain mhin madh cam dan hé mad dhán coir, gach ni tuicfiter tuic fen ocus bud ler duit fa dheoicch)

    Meabhruigh gach rann marghain mhin/mhín
    dá mbadh c[h]am-dhán[?] é [nó?] dá mbadh dhán cóir,
    gach ní[dh] tuigfidhear/tuigfear tuig féin agus budh léir duit faoi dheireadh

    Remember/Memorise every small/fine marginal verse / small/fine margin’s verse
    if it’s a crooked/incorrect poem [or] if it’s a correct poem,
    everything that will be understood understand [it] yourself and it will be clear to you at last.

    Mepruicch——–Meabhruigh
    gach————–gach
    rand————–rann
    marbhain——–marbhainmhin————-mhin/mhín
    madh————-dá mbadh
    cam
    dan—————c[h]am-dhán
    hé—————–é
    mad—————dá mbadh
    dhán————–dhán
    coir—————-cóir[/coir]
    gach—————gach
    ni——————ní[dh]
    tuicfiter———–tuigfidhear>tuigfear
    tuic—————-tuig
    fen—————–féin
    ocus—————agus
    bud—————-budh (old future copula)
    ler——————léir
    duit—————-duit
    fa dheoicch——–faoi dheoigh/dh

    in reply to: Draoi – dubh or dorcha #45535
    Murchadh
    Participant

    I notice Duibh-ealadha(in) “black art, magic” & Duibh-ealadhanach “pertaining to black art; sm. a magician” is Dinneen’s too suggesting it’s not a recent borrowing from English

    in reply to: Draoi – dubh or dorcha #45534
    Murchadh
    Participant

    Go raibh maith agat, Murchadh – this makes more sense.

    I’d like to pose a follow up question here in this context.

    We all know Lugh, the Ildana – or, in Irish – Samhildanach;

    how might we take the word Samhildanach and convert it to mean,

    “Skilled in all the BLACK Arts” ?

    go raibh mil maith agaibh

    Diabhaldánach” I suppose. (“Dubh-dhánach” may seem like an obvious possibility but it means “fatal” apparently.)

    for reference, another source uses marbhdraoi for necromancer http://breis.focloir.ie/en/fgb/necromancer

    Marbh-dhraoi (& Marbh-dhraoidheacht) is also in Dinneen’s dictionary under “marbh-“.
    In the same dictionary is the word Dubh-dhraoidheacht “sorcery, black-art” (from which one could form an adjective by suffixing -ach: dubh-dhraoidheachtach).

    in reply to: Brí athá #45518
    Murchadh
    Participant

    atá is often athá in Munster.
    ‘An bhrí athá leis’ would mean ‘the meaning it has’/’its meaning’.

    in reply to: Pronunciaiton of Ulster dialect word-final “D” #45517
    Murchadh
    Participant

    I don’t have an expert knowledge of Irish phonology, nor is my knowledge of Ulster Irish all that great (Lughaidh would have a much deeper knowledge of it), but I’m unaware of any tendency in Ulster for final /d’/ to become /t’/.

    I’d suggest that the pronunciation of the two words you give has been influenced by English:
    The first, obviously, by ‘Tibet’ – complete with stressed second syllable (if I understand ‘tih-BAYT’ correctly) which is at odds with usual Ulster pronunciation.
    The second by Hiberno-English. ‘David’ is frequently pronounced as if spelt ‘Davit’ in Ireland (I pronounce it this way).
    Also the variant ‘Davitt’/’Devitt’ (short first syllable) has traditionally been quite common here.

    in reply to: Draoi – dubh or dorcha #45516
    Murchadh
    Participant

    There are a number of terms based on the root ‘diabhal‘ with this meaning:
    diabhal-dán, diabhal-dánacht, diabhalnach (‘a necromancer’), diab(h)laidheacht*.

    These could be taken as pertaining specifically to activity involving the Abrahamic ‘devil’ rather than the more general concept of black magic but they’re certainly another option.

    (*This word and diab(h)laidhe (adj.) are frequently pronounced with an unlenited ‘b’.)

    in reply to: Draoi – dubh or dorcha #45503
    Murchadh
    Participant

    I’m not sure, but ‘asarlaidhe’ (C.O. ‘asarlaí’) might be better than ‘draoi’ for this meaning.

    in reply to: Translation of scribal inscription #45502
    Murchadh
    Participant

    Looks to me like (in modern Irish):
    “agus tabhradh an té a léighfeas so (?) beannacht ar m’anmain”
    “and may/let the person/he who will read this give a blessing on my soul”.

    p & ph/ṗ were often used interchangeably with b & bh/ḃ
    tí = té
    léighfeas = rel. fut. of léigh
    I’d imagine ‘uo’ should be ‘so’
    anmain = old dative of anam

    in reply to: Correct pronunciation of “bh” #45491
    Murchadh
    Participant

    This occurs only in the Ulster pronunciation of the possessive adjective “bhur” /mur/.

    Murchadh
    Participant

    I’ve had a look through 10-19. Here are some dialect variations I’ve noticed (not found in 1-9):

    dinnéar = /d’i:ˈŋ’e:r/ & /d’aiˈŋ’e:r/ [M]
    ag an siopa = ag an tsiopa [U]
    ag an teach = ag an dtigh [M]
    níl = nín in Waterford
    atá is often athá in [M] (even where thá is rare)
    carr is often ‘cairt’ in [M]
    bhfuil tú is often bhfuilir or bhfuileann tú in [M]
    tá siad is often táid or táid siad in [M]
    gach rud = achan rud in [U]
    nach before verb = in [M], so ná fuil
    feicim = chím [M] & ‘tchím [U]
    raibh = rabh/robh [U] & [C]
    teacht = tíocht [C]
    éisteacht = /ais’t’É™xt/ in Waterford
    foghlaim = /fo:lÉ™m’/ [C] & [U], /faulÉ™m’/ [M]
    cén fáth is common in [C]; in [M] you’d find cad ina thaobh (pron. ca’na thaobh), cad chuige (pron. ca’tuige) & ‘dé chúis (>cad é an chúis) in Waterford; in [U], as far as I’m aware, ‘tuige & ‘tuighe (as used by Lughaidh) are common
    cá bhfuil is often cá’il in [C] (& [U] ?)
    iontach = /i:ntəx/ [C] & [U], /u:ntəx/ [M]
    bhí siad = bhíodar [M]
    rith = rioth /rux/ in Waterford
    raibh siad = rabhadar [M]
    riamh = ariamh [C] & [U]
    madra = madadh in [C] & [U], gadhar often more common in [M]
    nóiméad = nóimeat, nómaint (etc.?) in [M], bómaite in [U]
    bhí tú = bhís [M]

    Again, expect errors/omissions.

    Murchadh
    Participant

    Níl, maise, nil mé fuar ar aon chor [M]

    An bhfuileann tú fuar?
    Nílim, mhuise, nílim fuar in aon chor. (Gaolainn na Mumhan)

    Yes, i n-aon chor / in aon chor is correct.
    ar aon chor” in my earlier post (#14) was an error, I’ve corrected it.

    Murchadh
    Participant
    Murchadh
    Participant

    As Roibeard says above, the speakers are from Conamara but generally pronounce the language as written.

    Some dialect differences I’ve noticed going through lessons 2-9:
    Níl = Chan fhuil in parts of U.
    Aimsir = /aim’s’É™r’/ in M.
    Breá = /b’r’e:/ in U.
    Maith = /maix’/ in north C & U.
    – Non-initial slender ch is generally /h/ in M, so oíche = /i:hÉ™/ there.
    Iontach = /i:ntəx/ in U & C, /u:ntəx/ in M.
    – The speakers pronounce inniu as if it were spelt inniubh. This is the norm in M. I’m surprised to hear Conamara speakers use it.
    Tinn = /t’iN’/ North C & U, /t’i:N’/ in Conamara (as heard from the speakers) and /t’aiÅ‹’/ or /t’ain’/ in M. (In M tinn usually means ‘sore’, breoite means ‘ill’.)
    Ar chor ar bith = ar scor ar bith in U (?) and i n-aon chor in M.
    Arís is often aríst.
    Anseo & Ansin = Anso & Ansan in M (also ansiúd = ansúd).
    Amuigh = /əˈmix’/ in north C & U, /əˈmu/ in Conamara & M.
    Istigh = /əˈs’t’ig’/ in M.
    Freisin is a Connacht word, in U fosta is used and in M it’s leis.
    Sa (ins an) causes eclipses in parts of C & M, e.g. sa mbaile etc. In most of the areas in which it causes lenition, t is prefixed to initial s, e.g. sa tseomra.
    Leaba is Leabaidh in U, north C and M (apart from Waterford).
    Teach = tigh /t’ig’/ (dative of teach) in M.
    Agat is usually a’d in C (U ?) and stressed on second syllable in M.
    Bosca = bocsa in U.
    – In M d & t are eclipsed after a preposition & the article, so ag an ndoras, ag an dtine etc.
    Tine = t(e)inidh in U

    Phonetic symbols as found in ‘Learning Irish’.
    I’m sure there are errors or oversights which others may be able to correct.

    Murchadh
    Participant

    Differences would be minor, really.
    As you mention, duit is frequently dhuit in the spoken language, especially following a vowel.
    The intensive prefix an- is ana- before consonants in Munster, leniting d,t & s:- ana-gheal, ana-thirim etc.
    Buíochas is pronounced “baechas” in Munster.
    is Thá in Waterford Irish.

    That’s about all I can see. Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of Ulster Irish could spot more.

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