Forum Replies Created
January 31, 2014 at 3:09 am in reply to: Speaking Irish: An Ghaeilge Bheo vs. Turas Teanga agus cúrsaí teangacha eile ( Cé acu is fearr libh?) #44940
Well, if you want to learn how to speak like a fluent native speaker from the Gaeltacht, I recommend “Speaking Irish An Ghaeilge Bheo“. As far as I can tell, the people on the video are mostly (maybe all?) native speakers from different Irish speaking regions so you’ll learn how to speak and understand the Irish language as it is actually spoken by fluent native speakers.
Turas Teanga is meant for people who already learnt “standard” in school and want to learn how actual native speakers speak. If that’s your thing, give Turas Teanga a try.
There are lots of free classes on YouTube that are taught by people with horrible American accents or by learners who don’t really know the language very well and are teaching “standard” which is not spoken in any Irish speaking community. :-S
I recommend learning an actual dialect of Irish that is spoken by fluent native speakers in a Gaeltacht. Learning this language is going to take years of hard work and will definitely cost you some money, so I think you should start off with the goal of getting quality learning materials and instruction instead of just trying to get free stuff. Just putting in my two cents – Good luck!
Thanks for letting me know about that, Jonas. I’m partial to synthetic verb forms because that’s the way I was originally taught to speak by my venerable teacher. :coolsmile:
Wee Falorie Man is right, though I would say that -ir is never the most common ending.
I’m sure you’re right, Jonas. The person who taught me this, used synthetic endings more often than not, but that certainly doesn’t mean that the majority of people talk like him. He was in his mid-eighties, but I’m not sure if that had anything to do with it – maybe synthetic endings are less commonly used by younger speakers.
According to a fluent native speaker from Múscraí who taught me Irish when I was first starting out: Táir is a very old-fashioned word that nobody would use anymore, but it is quite correct and can sometimes be found in old books so it’s good to understand táir whenever you run across it. Ná fuilir and An bhfuilir are definitely in use by native speakers. And of course, -ir is in use and very common in the 2nd person future tense.October 22, 2013 at 7:51 pm in reply to: Another Beginner Dialect Question – Choosing Based on Materials? #44748
Just wanted to chip in and say thanks to Wee_Falorie_Man for putting up the link to the conjugations on Cork Irish! I was using the site already, but I wanted to check the conjugation for verbs like léigh and nigh and I didn’t know it gave them in detail as well
Tá fáilte romhat! 🙂
I can honestly say that there is no way to learn proper Munster Irish on-line without the Cork Irish website. If David ever were to decide to make an on-line course, it would be a great success indeed!
If I wanted to publish a grammar for Corca Dhuibhne, I would be done in no time. Though I wouldn’t see the point, as Ó Sé already did and his is much more extensive.
It is very very hard to understand grammar explanations that are written in the language that you are trying to learn. In fact, I can barely understand grammar books that are written in English! That’s why a thorough grammar book of Munster Irish (that is written in English!) would be so important.October 7, 2013 at 7:07 pm in reply to: Another Beginner Dialect Question – Choosing Based on Materials? #44698
Let’s exchange that once for if 😉 I worked very hard on it in August and first half of September, but just opened the document for the first time in three weeks. I’ve been travelling a lot, and lot of work. But on the plus side, the grammar is almost done. If I wanted to publish a grammar for Corca Dhuibhne, I would be done in no time. Though I wouldn’t see the point, as Ó Sé already did and his is much more extensive.
And I don’t think I’ll reach 3000 words. But more than 2000 definitely, otherwise I don’t see any point in it.
“If”?? What kind of talk is that?! 🙂 It’s time to set aside unimportant things like “travel” and “work”, so that you can finish up this Irish language course! Just think of the fame, the prestige, the glory that will come from making the only comprehensive Munster Irish course in the history of the world! Now are you inspired?
By the way, I think it would be great if you were to publish a grammar of Corca Dhuibhne Irish; if you did, it would be the only one in the English language. Yes, Ó Sé is very thorough, but his grammar book is written entirely in Irish which is way too daunting for most English-speaking learners like myself.October 7, 2013 at 4:10 pm in reply to: Another Beginner Dialect Question – Choosing Based on Materials? #44696
The only problem with the great course by Dillon and Ó Cróinín is a rather limited vocabulary. In my experience from various languages, you’ll need to have a vocabulary of around 2000 words to get by in even basic everyday life, while around 3000 words will have see you able to discuss in almost every situation except very specific contexts. These “2000” and “3000” are rough estimates, and different for different languages as well, but I’ve found them reasonably correct.
If memory serves me right, Dillon and Ó Cróinín stop at around 1000 words. So if you complete their excellent book, you’ll know all the grammar you need, if you’ve digested it all, but you will still need to add to your vocabulary. I think even Learning Irish falls way short of 2000 words; I don’t know if any Irish course reaches that number.
That’s true. I think 1,000 words is certainly a good start, but of course 2,000 or 3,000 words would be even better. Unfortunately, the publisher put severe constraints on Dillon and Ó Cróinín, but they still managed to do an admirable job of fitting in as much as they could into such a small book.
I would have liked to see more exercises myself. Exercise 1 (Lesson 1), for example, has only 15 exercises when I think it should have had more like a hundred. Oh well, the authors had to do the best they could with the number of pages that they were allowed to publish.
Unfortunately the Celtic languages don’t have that many really good extensive courses. Let’s not even compare with French, Italian, Spanish, German, Russian or Chinese, but I have courses in relatively rarely studied languages (such as Persian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Albanian and Croatian & Serbian) that combine a wonderfully detailed grammar with more than 3000 words. It would be great to see a course like that for every Celtic language.
Well, once you publish your language course, I have no doubt that it will become the gold standard of Irish language courses! A thorough extensive Munster language course has been a long time coming …September 28, 2013 at 10:08 pm in reply to: Another Beginner Dialect Question – Choosing Based on Materials? #44593
As far as I know, the Cork Irish web-site is the only place on the net that has sound files for complete conjugations like these.
By the way, the person who is reading the verbs is the same guy who’s narrating this:September 28, 2013 at 3:09 pm in reply to: Another Beginner Dialect Question – Choosing Based on Materials? #44591
The most thorough book of Munster grammar (in English) is the original Teach Yourself Irish by Myles Dillon and Donncha Ó Cróinín. It was in print from 1961 to 1992. Be careful not to get the book by the same name that was published after 1992 – it is an entirely different book that teaches “standard” Irish. Teach Yourself Irish is a small book that is crammed with lots of information so it may seem a little daunting at first, but if you read through it slowly and patiently, it’s not too bad. In fact, if you manage to learn everything that is taught in this book, you’ll be virtually fluent. There are also good sound files that are made with native speakers for Teach Yourself Irish; you can download them for free, but I can’t remember the link at the moment – which reminds me, the folks on Rosetta Stone are from Kerry so they will sometimes sound slightly different from the speakers in Teach Yourself Irish who are from Cork. One last thing, Rosetta Stone teaches a funny sort of “standardized” Munster Lite version of Irish that carefully avoids using synthetic verb forms whenever possible even though synthetic verbs are correct and widely used in Munster Irish – just letting ya know …
Also, I recommend taking a look (and a listen) at the Cork Irish web-site’s verb conjugations:
They are read by a fluent native speaker from the Cork Gaeltacht.September 12, 2013 at 6:17 pm in reply to: Gnéithe suimiúla faoin Ghaeilge / Interesting ascpects to Irish #44500
Thanks for the answer and the link!
I’ll do some digging and see if I come with anything. Also, there are some pretty knowledgeable folks around here who might be able to help out with this.September 12, 2013 at 4:53 pm in reply to: Gnéithe suimiúla faoin Ghaeilge / Interesting ascpects to Irish #44497
I’ve got a couple of questions:
Who is Crom?
In what situations would you say, “Dar Crom!” and “In ainm Chroim!“? The dictionary translates these into, “By Jove!” and “In the name of Providence!”, which doesn’t help me at all because those expressions aren’t used in my dialect of English.
Re the OP –
Lughaidh mentions possibly making a Gaoth Dobhair version. Wouldn’t it be amazing if versions were produced for every sub-dialect (including those areas barely surviving like NW Mayo) 🙂
A fantasy, perhaps.
Yeah, that’s my fantasy for sure! :cheese: I think a Múscraí version of this would sure be nice.
Of course, all of this is perfectly possible if there is the will to do it.
I think it would be GREAT if you decide to do this! For years, Learning Irish was the only book available for people who wanted to learn actual native Irish as it is spoken in the Gaeltacht. I personally think that Learning Irish is one of the most boring, soul-destroying books that I have ever had the displeasure of running across. But it became a very big seller simply because there was nothing else out there for people who didn’t want to learn “standard”. Your book would be a huge breakthrough for Munster Irish, with positive effects that could hardly be understated.
I’ve got a few small suggestions:
1. I think it’s fine to go with the [u:] sound as long as you mention the fact that [o:] is widely used and is quite correct. I personally think that authenticity is more important than how widespread something happens to be. So, teaching the actual dialect of Dún Chaoin and Dún Urlann would be brilliant!
2. I think you should definitely use bead, beir, beam, etc. because synthetic verbs like these are in use and are the authentic forms of the actual dialect. Stuff like “beidh mé” should be mentioned, of course, but the main focus should be on traditional usage.
3. The same goes for the copula – use the form that is most authentic while being sure to mention the other forms that learners will run across.
4. Go ahead and use An múinteoir is é é while also mentioning Is é an múinteoir é.
I wouldn’t worry too much about using variant spellings. They shouldn’t be a problem at all, as long as they are to be found in Ó Dónaill’s dictionary (or at least in Dinneen’s). Of course, whenever you use a variant, it’s okay to mention the “standard” spelling, too.
Okay, now here’s where I might sound a little ridiculous: As you mentioned, you are not trying to make money from this book – it is a labour of love. This will be apparent to the learners who are using this book – Small details will make a big difference:
Make it with a spiral binding so that the book lies flat; this will make it much easier for people who are poring over the lessons.
Add illustrations. Even the simple line drawings in Buntús Cainte made the book much more readable and interesting.
Don’t scrimp on exercises and examples. There should be plenty of examples to look at and lots of exercises to work on.
Dialogs are nice and give the learner a good sense of what an actual conversation would sound like.
Leave helpful notes, hints and relevant facts about the subject. And don’t be afraid to be witty and funny! It’s perfectly alright if your book is fun and interesting for learners. 🙂
Sound files by fluent native speakers are super-important. The more sound files the better!
A good thorough glossary in the back of the book is always nice.
If I think of anything else, I’ll let ya know. 🙂August 29, 2013 at 3:01 pm in reply to: #44355