St. Pats Homepage › Forums › General Discussion (Irish and English) › Ceist faoi tine
- This topic has 3 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 10 years, 3 months ago by Fionlannach Fiosrach.
December 13, 2012 at 12:41 pm #36430Fionlannach FiosrachParticipant
Nollaig shona daoibh,
Tá ceist agam. An dtagann tine as an ceanna fréamh Ind-Eorpach le tinder?
Sa Vicífhoclóir Béarla fuair mé torthaí seo:
Tine… From Old Irish teine, from Proto-Celtic *teÉ¸net- (“fire”) (compare Breton and Cornish tan, Welsh tân).
Tinder… From Old English tynder, from tind. Compare to Swedish tända (“to light, to set on fire”), German zünden.December 13, 2012 at 1:10 pm #42960aonghusParticipant
Seo atá ag MacBain:
fire, Irish teine, Old Irish tene, g. tened, pl. tenti, Welsh tân, Cornish, Breton tan (in proper names also tanet): *tenet-, *tenos, Celtic root te, from tep, hot, as in teas, q.v. Not for *te(p)ne-, as usually said, which would give téine now, nor *tepsne-, which would produce tenne now; teine-sionnachain, phosphorescence, teine-fionn, will o’ the wisp (Suth.).
Agus seo maidir le Tinder
Mar sin, n’fheadar!December 13, 2012 at 1:18 pm #42961CúnlaParticipant
Cf. an mhír atá san Oxford English Dictionary ar an mbriathar tind, gí nach dtráchtar ar an bhfréimh Ind-Eorpach féin…
Etymology: Middle English had tend-e(n from 1175 to 1425; also, in Wyclif and down to 17th cent., with lengthened vowel, teende(n, in some mod. dialects teend /tiËnd/ . From c1400 onward also tind and tÄ«nd (see Î³, Î´ forms). Later with loss of final d from both forms (perhaps arising out of shortened past participle tind, tÄ«nd, teend, taken as = tin-d, tÄ«ne-d, teen-d, hence infinitive tin, tÄ«ne, teen ; but reduction of -nd to -n is found in many other words). In mod. dialect surviving from Scotland to Cornwall as /tÉªnd/ , /tiËn/ , /taÉªnd/ , /tÉªn/ , /taÉªn/ : see quots. and Eng. Dial. Dict. Early Middle English tenden corresponded to an Old English *tÄ™ndan (in compounds ontÄ™ndan, atÄ™ndan, fortÄ™ndan, to set fire to, kindle, and in vbl. n. tÄ™nding, Napier Contrib. to OE. Lexic.), corresponding to Gothic tandjan, Danish tÃ¦nde, Swedish tända ; causative of *tindan strong verb (ablaut series tind-, tand-, tund- ), to be on fire, burn, glow, represented by Middle High German zinden strong verb, in same sense. The history of early Middle English tiende, tinde, now tind, tÄ«nd /taÉªnd/ , is more difficult: as no other example is known of Old English and Middle English -end becoming later -ind, much less -Ä«nd, it is probable that we have here a parallel formation, representing an Old English *tyndan (from the weak ablaut grade tund- ), cognate with Old High German zunten ( < *zuntjan < *tundjan ), Middle High German and German zünden to set on fire, kindle, and Old English tynder tinder n. In that case, tend (teend, teen, teyne) and tind (tynd, tÄ«nd, tin, tÄ«ne, tyne) are two distinct but parallel and synonymous formations from the same root verb.December 22, 2012 at 7:28 pm #42981Fionlannach FiosrachParticipant
GRMA, léigh mé bhur bhfreagraí agus feictear leo nach bhfuil baint dhíreach idir na focal. Nó an bhfuil an mícheart agam?
Tá an Oíche is Lá Nollaig saor agam… tiocfaidh mé ar ais chun obair ar an Lá Fhéile Stiofáin. Strambánach go maith le chomh beagán daoine ag teacht isteach.
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