Pronouncing the “f” in future tense verbs

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  • #36854
    bunktron6000
    Participant

    My apologies if this has been already asked. I need help in figuring out how to pronounce the “f” in such words as:
    Cuirfidh
    Tógfaidh
    I’ve got a feeling that it’s probably not as in English. Perhaps like English “h”?

    Many thanks!
    John

    #45778
    Onuvanja
    Participant

    You are quite right. In most cases, it would be pronounced like “h”, although there’s a certain amount of variation from one dialect to another. Have a look at this earlier thread:
    http://www.daltai.com/forums/viewthread/412/

    #45779
    bunktron6000
    Participant

    Thanks much, but I’m with the fellow who posted in the link you provided–I had no idea how to search for it! Something I try my best to do before asking. I think Lughaidh exaggerates a wee bit…

    #45780
    Onuvanja
    Participant

    Why do you think Lughaidh exaggerates? 🙂 I’m not that familiar with other dialects, but in Connemara the future tense “f” is either silent or pronounced as “h” (between vowels and after l, m, n, r). And in Cois Fhairrge, it’s always silent.

    #45781
    bunktron6000
    Participant

    I should have been more specific. In response to your query, Lughaidh replied that the questioned had been addressed a hundred times before. I found little evidence of this.
    I don’t want anyone to misconstrue my comment as being any kind of serious criticism of him. He’s a great guy. He’s been very charitable and patient in answering dozens of my queries.

    #45782
    Onuvanja
    Participant

    So sorry! Then I completely misunderstood your comment. Still, there’s little I can add to what Lughaidh said in that thread. Hopefully other members will be able to offer more insights.

    #45784
    Labhrás
    Participant

    A synopsis.
    It is in German but not difficult to understand:
    http://www.braesicke.de/ortho.htm#fidh

    #45785
    gerrynobody
    Participant

    Does anyone have any good links to explain the prounciation of ‘f’ in the past habitual, as well as the future and conditional autonomous. This has long puzzled me. For example:

    thiocfainn
    thiocfá
    thiocfadh sé/sí/sibh
    thiocfaimis
    thiocfaidís

    tiocfar
    thiocfaí

    Is the f always pronounced as [h] in these?

    #45786
    Labhrás
    Participant

    In past habitual there is no f:

    thagainn
    thagtá
    thagadh sé
    thagaimis
    thagadh sibh
    thagaidís

    thagtaí

    #45788
    Seáinín
    Participant

    As Labhrás has indicated, you listed a conjugation of the verb “tar” in the modh choinníolach, but your question still holds. As with earlier answers, it depends on the canúint. In most of Conemara you would only hear the ‘f’ pronounced in the second person singular, thiocfá. In some places, like An Cheathrú Rúa, you general don’t hear it pronounced even there. No sound of ‘h’ either, just a smooth glide from the ‘c’ to the following vowel.

    #45789
    Labhrás
    Participant

    As Labhrás has indicated, you listed a conjugation of the verb “tar” in the modh choinníolach, but your question still holds. As with earlier answers, it depends on the canúint. In most of Conemara you would only hear the ‘f’ pronounced in the second person singular, thiocfá..

    … and in thiocfaí and tiocfar, I’d say.

    #45790
    gerrynobody
    Participant

    Go raibh maith agat 🙂
    Sorry, I meant to say conditional originally, not past habitual. Call it a brain fart, broim intinne…

    #45791
    LiamO
    Participant

    Does anyone have any good links to explain the prounciation of ‘f’ in the past habitual, as well as the future and conditional autonomous. This has long puzzled me. For example:

    thiocfainn
    thiocfá
    thiocfadh sé/sí/sibh
    thiocfaimis
    thiocfaidís

    tiocfar
    thiocfaí

    Is the f always pronounced as [h] in these?

    In Erris the ‘f’ in future and conditional forms are realised as a /h/ sound, including autonomous and second person singular forms. This /h/ is often the only thing differentiating the conditional and past hab. form of a verb, though some irregular verbs (as you’ve cited here) change their stems:

    Thiocfainn > Thiginn

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