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I’ve heard it said that, in some dialects, an unaccented Schwa plus bh/mh will result in a /u:/. Is this true for the Connacht dialect? Or is there it pronounced with a Schwa + v sound?
I assume you mean at the end of a word, since it’s unaccented.
/u:/ For the most part, you won’t hear that in Connacht, I think. I’m trying to think of examples where you might and I can’t think of any at the moment. It is usually like a -v
I assume you mean at the end of a word, since it’s unaccented.
/u:/ For the most part, you won’t hear that in Connacht, I think. I’m trying to think of examples where you might and I can’t think of any at the moment. It is usually like a -v
/u:/ is -bh in garbh, marbh, tarbh
In all varieties of Connacht Irish? I thought those ended in -v sound as well.
EDIT: breis.focloir.com gives Connacht “marbh” as “maree”, whereas Connacht “garbh” is “garuv”… not sure what to make of that.
According to An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Chonamara, both /u:/ and schwa are possible.
BH
/u:/ is found in words like banbh, tarbh, marbh, garbh, but also in arbhar (as though spelt arúr), colbha, gealbhan mearbhall.
Schwa in leanbh (as though spelt leana).
MH
Schwa in two-syllable words like annamh, gaineamh, talamh.
PS. Unless I’m wrong, /u:/ is generally more widespread in Mayo (North Connacht).
In all varieties of Connacht Irish? I thought those ended in -v sound as well.
EDIT: breis.focloir.com gives Connacht “marbh” as “maree”, whereas Connacht “garbh” is “garuv”… not sure what to make of that.
I don’t know why the different in pronunciation. Could it be because “marbh” comes from the verb?
I am so very very bad at grammar and spelling, so I will write the words phonetically as I don’t know the right spelling in the right context.
Tá an talamh (tala) garbh (garú).
Tá an tarbh (tarú) fiain.Tá mé maree tuirseach. – I am dead tired.
Tá an fear maree. – The man has been killed (literally).
Tá sé ag marú an mhuic – He is killing the pig. (sorry I’m not very imaginative either).
Tá marú in aghaidh an dlí. – Killing is illegal.
But we do say the bh sound in – Lá na Mairbh – All Souls Day.Could it be that what you mean by “maree” is “maraithe” (“killed”, “dead”), a close synonym of “marbh” (“dead”)? That would explain the “ee” sound in pronunciation.
Could it be that what you mean by “maree” is “maraithe” (“killed”, “dead”), a close synonym of “marbh” (“dead”)? That would explain the “ee” sound in pronunciation.
That’s a good explanation, dar liom.
Maybe in the specific example Bríd gave “maree tuirseach” that could be the case, however
[url]http://breis.focloir.ie/ga/fuaim/marbh[/url]
unless this is a listing error, they do say that this is “marbh” and not “maraithe”.
Sounds to me that perhaps:
Marbh = Maraí, when it’s an adjective, i.e. He is dead, I’m dead tired, e.t.c.
Marbh = Marú, when it’s a verbal noun, i.e. He is killing it, Killing is wrong, e.t.c.
Munster uses Marú for the verbal noun as well and the pronunciation Marbh for the adjective.
Tá sé ag marú an mhuic – He is killing the pig. (sorry I’m not very imaginative either).That’s interesting. In Munster this would be:
Tá sé ag marú na muice
Would you say An mhuic for The Pig or An mhuc Bríd?
Tá sé ag marú an mhuic – He is killing the pig. (sorry I’m not very imaginative either).That’s interesting. In Munster this would be:
Tá sé ag marú na muice
Would you say An mhuic for The Pig or An mhuc Bríd?Tá sé ag marú na muice – That would probably be grammatically correct.
An mhuic – not the standard spelling, but that is how it is pronounced. (muca- plural)
An mhuic – not the standard spelling, but that is how it is pronounced. (muca- plural)
Thanks. If you’re interested in the explanation of that, muic was originally the dative, used with:
ar an muic, leis an muic, don mhuic, as an muic (every pig related situation!), i.e. used after prepositions. In Conamara you basically use the old datives of feminine words all the time, like fuinneoig, e.t.c. You probably already know this.Most of the other Connacht and Leinster dialects of Irish were like this as well when they were alive.
Tá sé ag marú na muice – That would probably be grammatically correct.Dropping the genitive here is an old feature of Irish dialects (~300 years old)
In Munster they usually drop the genitive here when there is an adjective:
Tá sé ag marú an mhuc mhór.The genitive isn’t really used as much as the grammar books say and hasn’t been for a long time. Would ag marú na muice and things like that be what the previous generation in Conamara would have said? Or would they have also said ag marú an mhuic?
An mhuic – not the standard spelling, but that is how it is pronounced. (muca- plural)
Thanks. If you’re interested in the explanation of that, muic was originally the dative, used with:
ar an muic, leis an muic, don mhuic, as an muic (every pig related situation!), i.e. used after prepositions. In Conamara you basically use the old datives of feminine words all the time, like fuinneoig, e.t.c. You probably already know this.Most of the other Connacht and Leinster dialects of Irish were like this as well when they were alive.
Tá sé ag marú na muice – That would probably be grammatically correct.Dropping the genitive here is an old feature of Irish dialects (~300 years old)
In Munster they usually drop the genitive here when there is an adjective:
Tá sé ag marú an mhuc mhór.The genitive isn’t really used as much as the grammar books say and hasn’t been for a long time. Would ag marú na muice and things like that be what the previous generation in Conamara would have said? Or would they have also said ag marú an mhuic?
I can only speak for myself really. I don’t know the history of how previous generations said it. Lughaidh would know that.
I have heard before that we use the dative a lot in Conamara, and we don’t use as much of the genitive as other dialects. But I’m not good at grammatical terms and why things are said as they are.
I can only speak for myself really. I don’t know the history of how previous generations said it. Lughaidh would know that.I have heard before that we use the dative a lot in Conamara, and we don’t use as much of the genitive as other dialects. But I’m not good at grammatical terms and why things are said as they are.
Of course, if somebody asked me if the previous generation in my home town used certain grammatical features in English I wouldn’t have a clue beyond a certain basic level. Thanks for the information on the way you say it though.
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