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Táim ag léamh An Hobad agus chonaic mé é seo…
“Théadh an tollán ar aghaidh is ar aghaidh…”
All dictionaries do not list “théadh” as being a conjugation of “téigh”. I know it is supposed to mean something like “Went” or “Would go”. I’m thinking I’m missing something or else I’ve found a typo???
Go raibh maith agaibh!
It’s the 3rd singular past habitual of “téigh”.
théinn – I used to go
théiteá – you used to go
théadh sé/sí – he/she used to go
théimis – we used to go
théadh sibh – ye used to go
théidis – they used to go
théití – one/people used to goThese are the forms as laid out in An Caighdeán Oifigiúil but note that théadh tú, théadh muid, théadh siad are used in northern and western dialects.
Go raibh maith agat…that is very helpful to know. None of the dictionary or verb sheets I have had that listed.
And as for more examples…here is some more of the text. However, I have found several strange spellings and uses of words in this book and I’m only talking about the first page so far….
“Théadh an tollán ar aghaidh is ar aghaidh, ní go díreach ar fad, isteach i dtaobh an chnoic–An Cnoc, mar a thugadh gach uile dhuine ar feadh na mílte slí theart timpeall air–agus is iomaí doras cruinn a d’osclaíodh amach ón tollán, ar thaobh amháin ar dtós agus ansin ar an taobh eile.”
That is the whole sentence.
Here are a couple of online dictionaries that give the full conjugations.
An Foclóir Beag: http://193.1.97.44/focloir/. Type “téigh” into the search box (the fada is required) and it will list out the conjugations.
I’m loving this new dictionary, focloir.ie. Go to http://www.focloir.ie/en/dictionary/ei/go?q=go, scroll down to the first entry téigh, click on the English word “verb” next to it and a window will pop up showing the Past Tense conjugations. Select the drop-down for tense and choose the “Past habitual” and you will see the conjugations of téigh for that tense.
théinn – “théadh mé” in Connachta; “ba ghnáth liom teacht” in Donegal
actually it’s “ba ghnách liom a theacht” in Donegal 🙂
The past habitual does exist in Donegal in theory, but mainly in older speakers’ speech. Otherwise you use the “ba ghnách le…” instead, or the conditional (Scottish Gaelic has done the same thing for a long time, so I don’t think it’s an Anglicism): “rachainn ‘na’ toigh tábhairne go minic nuair a bhí mé níos óige”
Here are the past habitual forms given in ‘An Teanga Bheo, Gaeilge Uladh’:
théinn
théitheá
théadh sé (pronounced théit sé)
théimis(t), théamais(t), théadh muid (pr. théú muid), théadh sinn (pr. théit sinn)
théadh sibh (pr. théit sibh)
théadh siad (pr. théit siad)théití/théataí
Here is the referenced phrase as Bearla:
“The tunnel wound on and on, going fairly but not quite straight into the side of the hill — The Hill, as all the people for many miles round called it — and many little round doors opened out of it, first on one side and then on another.”
That’s funny I”m actually reading “an Hobad” right now as well!
Be aware that in literature, you will not see the simple past tense used nearly as much as in speech. Instead you’ll see what looks like the conditional (which is really the habitual past, but they look usually identical)
As a side note, I’m enjoying the book. I feel it’s well translated (as far as my knowledge can discern) and a fun, light (for me anyways) read. It’s really nicely put together too: the illustrations and cover are all fashioned after one of the original publications.
They both end in -adh, true, but the condtional of regular verbs will have either -f- (1st declension) or -eo-/-/o- (2nd declension).
conjugation, not declension 🙂 In Irish you can’t decline verbs (except the verbal noun, but it’s a noun), you decline nouns and adjectives 🙂
Either way, the simple past is used in writing as much as in speech.
That contradicts my experience. I’ve read several books (most by native speakers) and ALL of them feature much more past habitual than simple past, which I have rarely heard in speech (it seems like usually from Munster speakers). Although maybe a more accurate statement (for what I intended to mean anyways) is that the simple past is probably used as much in writing as in speech, but the habitual past is used less in speech than in writing. Again, that’s my experience. I haven’t heard too many speakers use habitual past at all.
That contradicts my experience. I’ve read several books (most by native speakers) and ALL of them feature much more past habitual than simple past, which I have rarely heard in speech (it seems like usually from Munster speakers).
is there some misunderstanding there? What is called simple past in irish is the preterite, ie. the tense of bhì, rinn(e), chuaigh, etc… you use it all the time.
The past habitual isn’t as common, probably because in general you talk a bit more often about things that you did, than about things that you used to do.Although maybe a more accurate statement (for what I intended to mean anyways) is that the simple past is probably used as much in writing as in speech, but the habitual past is used less in speech than in writing. Again, that’s my experience. I haven’t heard too many speakers use habitual past at all.
John Ghràinne uses the habitual past, if I remember well (and the simple past of course), but as I said, it looks like most Donegal people rather use the conditional or “ba ghnàch liom” instead of the habitual past now – in my experience too. Looks like the habitual past is a bit “archaic” or maybe literary in Donegal Irish now.
Yeah my first statement was incorrectly written. I meant that I rarely hear habitual past in speech, not the other way around.
I’ve definitely heard it used, but it seems to me that there is a trend towards using the simple past for most things in speech, but maybe that’s just the less fluent speakers.
Well, one would have to use the habitual past to refer to events which recurred many times in the past. You couldn’t use the simple past there. I haven’t heard anything else from native speakers, in Corca Dhuibhne, at least. The grammar texts make no mention to my knowledge of using the simple past where the habitual past is required. The only exception I can think of is after “is minic a” which requires the simple past. Apart from the “is gnách liom” + verbal noun construction in Donegal, I can’t see how one could avoid the past habitual to refer to something that one “used to do/say”, etc.I think you’re making a wrong presumption here. Just because I’m saying I have heard it less in speech doesn’t mean people are using the simple past where they should be using habitual past. That isn’t at all the same thing, for several reasons. First and foremost, I think that talking about things that “used to” happen is simply more common in prose (which is concerned mostly with things that have happened, even if only a fictional setting) than it is in everyday speech, which tends to be concerned more with the here-and-now, future, and immediate past.
If I said that I don’t see the future tense as much in prose, would you jump to the conclusion that people are using the present tense where they should be using the future tense? Or maybe it’s just that not many people are writing prose about what will happen?
Also, unless I’m mistaken you’ve forgotten about some other constructions that indicate past habitual type action, i.e. thaithíos, chleacht, etc.
A lot of this is just a tad over my head, but I get the gist of what you all are saying. It boils down to this book–though while enjoyable–will be a bit tricky at times to read due to the kind of translation it has. I’m gonna keep my wits about me and hopefully be able to bring up any tricky phrases here to get your take on it.
Go raibh míle maith agaibh!It shouldn’t be too difficult for you once you adapt to understanding the different past tense conjugations. I am finding the book very readable, but maybe my reading fluency is a little better than yours, who knows. You seem to be of a level that is ready to tackle this subject though. I have confidence that you will have to read probably another chapter or so before you understand it fairly well. And you should encounter this type of thing in most books, so don’t be afraid of an Hobad because you think you’re not ready – you are 😉 Go n-éiri leat!
Lughaidh’s point about the conditional replacing the habitual past also holds true in Munster although I don’t know to what extent the conditional has replaced the past habitual. I don’t think Ó Sé makes any specific reference to it. The following is an interesting example of both in the same sentence:
fairtí go géar í [raic] agus chífí í ag snámh ar an bhfarraige i bhfad ó bhaile (Aistí Ó Chléire:41)
This might explain why I’ve always assumed the conditional and past habitual were usually identical (I had, until this thread, never read anything in a grammar book about past habitual). Now having read about it, I realize I’ve mostly been seeing conditional used as past habitual.
In this one book I have at my side I’m seeing that it is (as far as I can find skimming through) all conditional as past habitual with the exception of the irregular verbs (i.e. “thagadh” and “bhíodh” are used, whereas “Chlaonfach sé siar a chloigeann” appears on the same page, in a habitual context).
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